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PA2AGA > TCPDIG 09.07.97 10:44l 166 Lines 6117 Bytes #-10572 (0) @ EU
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Subj: TCP-Group Digest 97/38A
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From: pa2aga
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest 97/38A
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
TCP-Group Digest Mon, 14 Apr 97 Volume 97 : Issue 38
Today's Topics:
*** NEW ICOM REFLECTOR ***
Benefits of AMPR IP ...
IP-AMPR Discussion
What Protocole traceroute use ? (2 msgs)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:11:53 EDT
From: n0ygm@juno.com (Kenneth G Knight)
Subject: *** NEW ICOM REFLECTOR ***
*** NEW ICOM REFLECTOR ***
Due to popular requests and thanks to the help of Al Waller, K3TKJ, an
ICOM Reflector has been established for our use.
This is a generic ICOM Reflector. This is to cover all ICOM Amateur
Communication products: Old, new, receivers, transceivers and
accessories. This includes the IC706. This forumis to share information
or questions on ICOM communication products. Please subscribe,
participate and enjoy!
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73,
Ken, N0YGM--DM78ov
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:12:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian A. Lantz" <brian@lantz.com>
Subject: Benefits of AMPR IP ...
On 12 Apr 1997 skoric@uns.ns.ac.yu wrote:
I know, none of this will get through closed minds, but it makes me feel
better to send it ;-)
> You have right Brian, BUT, tcpip (except on its ends) is not RADIO neither
> HAM RADIO. I often use my academy network, email, ftp, telnet etc, but all
> this stuff is not (HAM)RADIO.
You may not use TCP/IP over Ham Radio, but that doesn't mean MANY of us
are not. Please do not judge the media based on your (or others) usage of it.
MANY of us are enjoying active TCP/IP lives over Ham Radio.
> But, it is difficult to say
> if these non-hams would become radio-amateurs (beside their being Internet-
> -amateurs or telephone-amateurs) if we all force non-radio protocols and
> applications in way you say: "...carry data on them in order to build the
> network we'd all like to have".
Who's to say what is a 'non-radio protocol'? TCP/IP over AX.25 is as much
Amateur Radio as Netrom, or NO protocol at all is.
What determines this? Well, since the link layer is still AX.25, then it
*IS* Amateur Radio. The data inside the AX.25 does NOT change this.
I'm sorry, but PBBS usage is NOT the only usage for Ham Packet Radio. It
is *one* of MANY usages.
> Do we (hams) really like to have NON-radio
> tcpip network or what? I am not against tcpip and other newsgroups, email,
> and all other "wired" TOOLS that are going to help us improving our RADIO
> network.
AX.25 is a modification of a 'wired' protocol. It is the link layer. All
data in a link layer is equivalent, and anything passed over AX.25 **IS**
Amateur Radio.
> But, I do not
> like to see Internet wormholes that completely take place of forwarding
> RADIO-originated mail and/or replace RADIO-nodes and repeaters. Please,
> do not mix different "problems" :)
Well, if this is happening in YOUR area, then take care of the local
problem. I don't know of ANY area in which non-RADIO usage is taking
the place of RADIO. It is used IN ADDITION to it, as is the right of
those to do so.
> I really can't see how tcpip, dedicated for wired networks, would become
> neccessary protocol for a "future amateur packet" *RADIO* network. For an
> wired amateur network, it might be...
This whole idea that TCP/IP can ONLY be used with 'wired' networking is
the same as saying that personal handwriting can only be used for
correspondence sent via the Postal Service. That is, to say that you
could NOT use your own handwriting unless the result of that handwriting
was to be send in an envelope, with a stamp, and a postal carrier.
Or to assert that since you learned to read with books, that you cannot
now read newspapers, and that doing so means you are a
'newspaper-reader'. You have no right to consider reading newspapers AND
books. It can't be done.
Or that since you learned to walk in diapers, that you cannot ever walk
unless you are wearing diapers.
Or, if your first car was a Ford, then you cannot ever own any kind of a
car but a Ford.
These are silly ideas, but so is the idea that a protocol (TCP/IP) cannot
be used on RF. It is a protocol, which resides on top of a Link Layer
protocol, and can be (and is) used equally well on a wired network as it
is in wireless networking.
Let's face it. This argument is that a few don't feel that individuals have
any RIGHT to use non-RF means IN ADDITION to RF ones, for their own
personal enjoyment. This small group believe that once someone gets an
Amateur license, he relenqueshs all personal rights to be involved in
ANYTHING other than Ham Radio. And if he has the GALL to do so, he should be
belittled, and should hand over his license as no longer being a 'true' ham.
To be continued in digest: tcp_97_38B
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