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PA2AGA > TCPDIG 09.07.97 10:08l 230 Lines 7962 Bytes #-10572 (0) @ EU
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Subj: TCP-Group Digest 97/34
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 14:04:19 MET
Message-Id: <tcp_97_34>
From: pa2aga
To: tcp_broadcast@pa2aga-1
Subject: TCP-Group Digest 97/34
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
TCP-Group Digest Thu, 10 Apr 97 Volume 97 : Issue 34
Today's Topics:
Benefits of AMPR IP ...
What Protocole traceroute use ? (4 msgs)
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu>.
Subscription requests to <TCP-Group-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>.
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:41:36 -0800
From: misko@gaianet.net
Subject: Benefits of AMPR IP ...
Hello hams and others,
Let me comment the following...
>From: brian@nothing.ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
>Subject: Benefits of AMPR IP encapsulation gateways.
>
>But the people who are developing protocols and applications are
important
>too, as we need both radio circuits AND t
lnn-hams
and it is so positive this newsgroup exists. But, it is difficult to say
if these non-hams would become radio-amateurs (beside their being
Internet-
-amateurs or telephone-amateurs) if we all force non-radio protocols and
applications in way you say: "...
ps, email,
and all other "wired" TOOLS that are going to help us improvinIO
service. But, I do not
like to see Internet wormholes that compease,
do not mix different "problems" :)
>The one thing I would NOT like to see is the encapsulating gateways
being
>used as 'cheap internet access' - that is, the people running the
gateways
>should have some intio networking other
>than just being an Intern
o get people interested and involvemee passing rules in the UK don't
help one jot either.
Hmmm, who banned them to "develop anything clever... give them any
channels"?
Not sure about the UK, but here in YU most of them use the packet
network
without a single coin to improve its thruput. After they become "fed up"
they sw
deas, killed by the
>eeuse it so wonderfully. TCP/IP doesnt work well at 1200 baud, and
>I
Wrong! AXne on 1200 bps. It's good! But, it is NOT good when
on the local network is active the whole packet community in the same
time.
That case you offer more than one users' port at the local node,
implement
2400, 4800, 9600 etc. I can't see what tcpip may help to solve this
"problem".
>TCP/IP or some similarh level protocol for
>a future amateur packet network that works well and scales. AX.25 is an
>interesting demonstration of how far you can warp a crude landline
>error recovery protocol to other purposes but it doesn't scale.
I really can't see how tcpip, dedicated for wir
that are responsible
>for its exponential decline in membership.
How yo@texoma.net>
>Subject: Benefits of AMPR IP encapsulation gateways.
>ne who is interested in seeing his alleged "reasoning".
Please, send this text to me via packet or email.
>"We'll put a radio on either end of an Internet link, and pretend it's
>'advanced amateur packet radio networking', even though it's really no
ll".
>"It's just temporary, until the megabaud RF networkssing around"
existing RF links, slow though they mayperation of the RF net as
>simple interfaces between the Internet and ham networks. Obviously both
>Internet and Packet would benefit from such an exchange, and I'd be
glad to
>assist any efforts along those lines. There are endless possibilities.
Very well said. It'll be nice t
gateways to move amateur radio traffic has proved to be a disasterous
>mport using all WIRED capabilities in order to help and
improve amateu/S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 17:31:48 +0200
From: Ronen Pinchook <ronen@netmanage.co.il>
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
Hi there
Do you know what protocole Traceroute Use
I thought that it is ICMP But oppening it in the firewall didnt allow to do
traceroute
Thanks for any advice
Ronen
------------------------------------------------------
Home of Chameleon , TCP/IP applications for Windows
Ronen Pinchook (4Z4ZQ) Systems/Network Manager
NetManage Israel, Ltd. Phone: 972-4-8550123
E-Mail: ronen@netmanage.co.il Fax: 972-4-8550122
Time sent:04/09/97 17:31:49
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:07:46 +1000 (EST)
From: Graham Broadbridge <grahamb@peachy.apana.org.au>
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Ronen Pinchook wrote:
> Hi there
> Do you know what protocole Traceroute Use
> I thought that it is ICMP But oppening it in the firewall didnt allow to do
traceroute
It sends UDP packets to a strange port number, and listens for ICMP ttl
exceeded
mesages.
Graham.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Broadbridge Internet <grahamb@peachy.apana.org.au>
Marsfield NSW AmprNet <vk2yui@gw.vk2yui.ampr.org>
Australia <vk2yui@amsat.org>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:19:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Phil Karn <karn@qualcomm.com>
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
>Do you know what protocole Traceroute Use
>I thought that it is ICMP But oppening it in the firewall didnt allow to do
traceroute
The traceroute "probe" packets are normally UDP packets to high
numbered (unused) ports. They trigger the generation of ICMP TTL
Exceeded messages at the router.
The Windows 95 traceroute seems to use ICMP Echo Requests instead of
UDP packets.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 00:15:00 -0000
From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow)
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
Ronen Pinchook wrote in a message to Mike Bilow:
RP> Do you know what protocole Traceroute Use
RP> I thought that it is ICMP But oppening it in the firewall
RP> didnt allow to do traceroute
Traceroute relies upon ICMP replies. It is a very bad idea to have firewalls
blocking ICMP as a matter of course, and ICMP is almost always permitted.
However, traceroute can be performed by sending any kind of frames, often UDP
frames to arbitrarily selected fake port numbers, such that the TTL field
expires prematurely. This causes the router at which TTL is decremented to
zero to send back an ICMP Time Exceeded message. Where UDP frames are used to
provoke the ICMP replies, the firewall might well block the outgoing UDP
frames
because of their strange port numbers.
If traceroute is implemented by using ICMP Echo Request frames to provoke the
ICMP Time Exceeded replies, then this would likely pass your firewall.
-- Mike
------------------------------
End of TCP-Group Digest V97 #34
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