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PA2AGA > TCPDIG 05.04.97 20:38l 195 Lines 7015 Bytes #-10667 (0) @ EU
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Subj: TCP-Group Digest 97/30B
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Message-Id: <tcp_97_30B>
From: pa2aga
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest 97/30B
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>have to dig deep in the dusty piles...
It was early-mid January 1986. I remember that because of a
conversation we had over dinner about the politics of unmanned vs
manned space exploration, and only a week or two later Challenger
exploded -- which occurred in late January 1986.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 11:09:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Karn <karn@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Happy birthday tcp-group
I also remember Mike Chepponis had this toy portable personal computer
that used microcassette tapes for mass storage. It could even compile
programs. I remember him starting it up in the Orlando airport
lounge, and of course it took forever to do anything...
Today it's nothing to travel with a 133 MHz pentium under my arm...
Phil
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Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:09:32 -0800
From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" <ecloud@goodnet.com>
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V97 #29
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 20:11:56 +0100
From: Jacques PHILIPPE <on4kjp@ibm.net>
Subject: Happy birthday tcp-group
Hello,
It's now ten years that this group projects to build a high speed
tcpip
network on ham bands. See the archives at
(ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/mailarchives/tcp-group)
The first step was made by Phil with it's NOS in ?1987. A bit later,
it was clear that tcpip will never work correctly over ax25, because
tcpip
is end to end ack and ax25 badly protected against collision and
noisy path.
Yeah, end-to-end connections are definitely a bad assumption. But as
the Internet gets more congested I think it could become a bad
assumption for it too. I think if we applied ourselves better, what we
learn could improve speeds on the Internet too. We need a more compact,
store-and-forward email protocol, for instance. (Maybe there is one
already but if so it's not getting used much.) Especially since that is
the most important and the most likely traffic on packet. Then if there
is bandwidth left over for _prioritized_ real-time applications like
telnet and the web, so much the better. Switching to ipv6 ought to be a
big help in the direction of prioritized traffic.
Switching to something other than ax25 is still a matter of politics
isn't it? When the FCC will let us, then maybe we will.
(To prove it, imagine a voice protocol over ax25 : everything stops
for 5
or 10 seconds every time a frame is lost. And if you need to laugh,
imagine
multi users game : the B player still plays while the game is
already over
at other players).
Well both of those applications are really tough on any network. I
think the long-term solution for the Internet is fewer hops, too, just
like it is for hams. That's why some big nationwide ISP's install their
own backbones - so that they can get from one pop to another without a
lot of hops to get on the big original backbones.
Some one or two percents of the remaining tcpip users, wants to find
a
solution. There is one, it calls FEC (forward error correction). But
implementing FEC requires to make a new network with new protocols,
new
transmitters, new modems, ... everything new. So the 0.01 percents
of hams
And it's only a partial solution.
Spread spectrum is certainly a nice stuf, but not for a multiple
users
Why? The whole point is how well it shares a frequency band with lots
of users (up to the number of possible spreading codes). I think the
cell site approach fits well with this. Have cell sites good for a
radius of a few miles, using spread-spectrum, and for the ones whose
service areas overlap, they can talk to each other, effectively forming
a backbone, dynamically allocating as many of the SS channels as is
necessary for the backbone traffic while always reserving at least a few
extra channels for incoming user links. For cell sites which are spaced
farther apart then we need microwave links and stuff like that.
server. The only thing that will bring people back to HAMNET is a
WIRELESS
Ethernet at 1 Mbits at least. This will allow, multiple digital
voice
repeater, digital tv repeaters, conferences, network games (Doom),
on
Well that is fun stuff for individuals to experiment with, given the
lack of present activity, but it does not scale well enough for all the
hams in a dense metro area to start using it. There aren't enough
channels to go around. SS is better for dense areas, high-speed
microwave for inter-city connections. We need to encourage lots of
users to get involved so that their SS nodes can provide redundancy and
extra channels for extra bandwidth, not limit them by running out of
channels.
Nobody will be attracted by HTTP or FTP, Hamnet will never be able
to
compeet with cheap Internet on these points.
Well it's technically feasible, and approaching politically feasible,
but you have a point in that mass production makes things cheaper.
People want wireless internet, and by golly they'll get it one way or
another. We can either be part of the solution up front, by fostering a
situation where SS is used en masse, or else be relegated to scavenging
what the consumers throw away and building an inferior network with
that. No flames about ham radio not being an internet provider please;
I've heard them already.
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ORG:Gateway Data Sciences
ADR:;;3410 E. University Drive Suite 100;Phoenix;AZ;85034
EMAIL;INTERNET:ecloud@goodnet.com
TITLE:Software Design Engineer
TEL;WORK:(602) 968-7000 x 219
TEL;FAX:(602) 437-8230
TEL;HOME:(602) 968-6516
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End of TCP-Group Digest V97 #30
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