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ZL3AI > APRDIG 01.09.03 09:12l 246 Lines 9647 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Friday, August 29, 2003.
1. Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
2. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
3. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
4. Global Emails
5. Online PHGR calculator
6. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
7. Re: Global Emails
8. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
9. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
10. Shelby Hamfest
11. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
12. Re: Shelby Hamfest
13. Re: Shelby Hamfest
14. Re: Shelby Hamfest
15. Re: Shelby Hamfest
16. Re: Shelby Hamfest
17. Shelby Photo
18. Re: Shelby Photo
19. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
20. Re: Online PHGR calculator
21. Re: Online PHGR calculator
22. "directed path": K4OBX is not pleasentville !
23. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
24. Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
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Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
From: Richard Garcia <k4gps@bellsouth.net>
Date: 29 Aug 2003 00:04:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1
Maybe some or most states but there are exceptions. I have not traveled
the Eastern Seaboard mobile in a few years but between GA and DC there
was very little APRS coverage while on I-95. Some spots here and there
but very weak in all but 1 area.
More recently 1 year ago a trip from SE FL to Austin showed a APRS hole
through much of MS and LA along I-10 and another chunk in the panhandle
of FL and Eastern TX. This was all done on 50w with a through the roof
gain antenna with low loss coax, a much better tracker than most would
have.
I still made it into the APRS IS but I cheated during these long gaps in
coverage. I fired up my PCMCIA CDMA card and logged into the server for
a few hours. I'm lucky in this part, I get paid to use air time 'Can you
hear me now ?" so a few hours of roaming with digital data was not a
problem but it would be for many others. One local who spent several
weeks in TN also had problems making it to the IS. The few packets that
made it were apparently due to ducting and he was able to make it to a
I-Gate once or twice a day in the morning or evening.
So yes long paths can be a bad thing at times but necessary in other
cases. Back to the root problem, education is necessary, this is not
cookie cutter technology even after so many years. Mix it in with the
problem that many do not carry or own laptops to see if a path is
working or to have the ability to modify the path "in the blind" while
traveling great distances and the network can be a mess.
Thankfully in these cases the mobile is in and out quickly. I don't know
how many times I see out of town people visiting with WIDE-x in the
path. It's a shame, they have no idea that all but 2 or so digi's in the
area will not digi them at all while here. That's the nature of a "dumb
tracker", take a guess before you leave on your trip and hope that it's
a good choice! If they are smart enough they will put RELAY in the front
and at least go out via a single digi.
Rich
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Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: "Darryl Smith" <Darryl@radio-active.net.au>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:49:47 +1000
X-Message-Number: 2
People
The other way to look at the data is to code an odometer calculating how
much a station moves in a minute, hour, day etc. In one case here in
Sydney, I saw a station that moved about 120,000 miles in 8 hours. The user
was transmitting the location of a fixed station from two different
locations - from a TNC and from a PC. Unfortunately he got North and South
mixed up on one of them, so the station would move from Sydney to Japan and
back every five minutes or so
Darryl
---------
Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia
Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International]
Darryl@radio-active.net.au | www.radio-active.net.au
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Subject: Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:40:49 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 3
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, KC7ZRU wrote:
>Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>
>>Now the second astute observer might note that in some areas there might
>>be 5 or 7 digis within the 50 user area. In Wyoming, this might be the
>>case, and so that many hops might be needed.
>
>Please Bob!
>
>Do not even *appear* to be suggesting a path of 5 to 7 hops for Wyoming!
>Honestly and truthfully, RELAY,WIDE2-2 is MORE than enough...
You nailed me there! I shoulda theorized "Timbuktu"...
>If anything, Wyoming is an area where the "50 user" circle not only
>encompasses almost the entire state - but is not a reasonable metric for
>your purposes....
Well, I agree completely with your point, but then the basis of your point
is that the "objective" is to get to an IGate (which arguably is a very
good basis).... ANd this can be done in 2 hops or so anywhere in the vast
area. But if one considers communicating among the "50 user" local RF net
as the "objective", then I think the 50 user circle is still a good
metric for the RF environment (if that is the objective)...
Just thinking...
Bob
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Subject: Global Emails
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:13:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 4
Not APRS, but Email and NETWORK related:
Theory says everyone on the planet is no more than 6 social associations
away from anyone else. This has now been demonstrated via an Email test.
Hundreds of email users were asked to try to contact targets spread all
over the world by sending a test Email to someone they knew who might be
in a better position to make contact. On average, arriving emails took on
the order of 4 hops to get there! Wow. (Science News 16 Aug)..
We have all heard how everyone on the planet is less than something like
30th cousins from everyone else (2^30th power is greater than the earths
population 30 generations ago). But this is based on powers of 2 because
everyone only has 2 parents.
The social contacts only goes to the 6th power to reach everyone on earth,
because instead of only 2 friends, we may know as many as 100 different
people who each know 100 and so on. So 100^6th power can connect everyone
on the planet... in just 6 links...
Of course there are overlaps so it requires each of us to know 100 unique
people that our other 100 associations do not know.. But it makes you
think...
Please dont try this email test on the APRS-SIG! (I think the Nigerians
have a monoply on it...:-)
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
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Subject: Online PHGR calculator
From: "David Thege" <dthege@conpoint.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:42:50 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5
Network Blitz Can somebody give the web addresses of the sites that had
PHGr calculators. I upgraded my computer and didn't keep my bookmarks.
Thanks.
Dave N0XBN
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Subject: Re: K4OBX is not pleasentville !
From: The Marlin Family <marlins@coastalnet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:00:33 -0400
X-Message-Number: 6
Hello Group !
I am the trustee of one of the FLAMES ! and I have a real good set of
turnout gear..... so let's hear the issues !
To begin with. we ARE beginners. we are not out here to cause any kind
of problems. we are learning as fast as possible. We have already been
dipped into the tar vat by one of the members of this group. And It looks
like the chicken feathers are close. Thank goodness there are no rails
here.....
Our goal here on North Carolina's Outer Banks is to place four APRS weather
stations on the system. From hardened sites, with lots of UPS power. (weeks
worth, not days) Our plan calls for the stations to remain operational
during major storms. They will be located in secure electrical
substations. One is operational in test mode right now. Next... we
wanted to make sure that the data from the stations made it out of here and
into the internet at LEAST 100 miles from the station location. The
nearest I-Gate has not been up long enough for us to see it through a cat-3
hurricane... or even a good Nor-easter. Our Elmer on this project has his
own set of flames going on. "Just Because" was not his answer to why our
path is like it is. Since we do not wish to impact the network in a
negative way, we are requesting the groups help. Within reason, what
do we need to do to make the network happy AND get out past Plymouth NC to
the next hardy I-Gate ? We are willing to do whatever the group suggest to
keep the network clean. Eric, I beleive you need to contact me by
phone ! were saving some of this Tar and feathers.....hihi
Thanks in advance. Richard Marlin, K4HAT Trustee of the K4OBX system and
wearer of nomex clothes !
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Subject: Re: Global Emails
From: Dave Kaplan <dkaplan@steffeninc.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:14:16 -0500
X-Message-Number: 7
At 09:13 AM 8/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Not APRS, but Email and NETWORK related:
>
>Theory says everyone on the planet is no more than 6 social associations
>away from anyone else. This has now been demonstrated via an Email test.
Here is the web site. What a fascinating experiment! I am a participant in
this experiment.
http://smallworld.columbia.edu/
Dave
WB0WNX
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