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ZL3AI > APRDIG 30.05.03 00:10l 241 Lines 9534 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, May 25, 2/4
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Sent: 030527/1335Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:1134 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1395-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: weekend lawyer question
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 08:40:53 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11
Once I receive this data, process this data in my computer, re-format
it to fit the APRS protocol, it's my data and I can transmit it all day
long....period.
What would truly be wrong with this picture is if a party mis-represented
this data.....meaning....changing or misrepresenting the location of where
this data was applied, etc......that is Deception, Fraud and Criminal....and
that has in fact happened very recently on APRS and nobody in the area gave
a rats tail. Deceptive communications, to the best of my knowledge is
illegal way beyond the ARS rules regardless if the claimed intent was not to
deceive. Knowingly transmitting deceptive signals is illegal...and that is
stated clearly in many service types.
Properly trained Amateur Radio Operators should understand this best of all!
If the rules the FCC impose and that the ARRL support are so anal that
the above can not be understood, then we do need to get rid of the rules and
the folks that make them. Does the ARRL even have lobbyist? I have not
seen or heard of any ARRL legislation in all the years I've been a ham
(other than giving our bands away and no-code, etc). And, I have NEVER had
an ARRL representative contact me as a licensed Amateur Radio Operator to
support positive legislation of any kind in 27 years and the same hold true
for negative legislation!
Other organizations the size of the ARRL have 1 or more lobbyist, (paid or
totally volunteer) per state and they do contact their membership and go out
well beyond their membership to find support.
It is no wonder other services are out doing the Amateur Radio Service. The
FCC and the lack of interest the ARRL has in changing technology or any mass
group of Amateurs has hindered where the ARS could be today. You have to
blind not to see this.
"We believe that man has been endowed by his Creator with FREEDOM of WILL
and that what has been granted must not be compromised by any man or
Government."
We should be receiving equal opportunity from the FCC! Are we??
Shields up!
Jim Wooddell
"Freedom isn't cheap."
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Subject: RE: Garmin Rhino?
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 08:53:07 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex" <kr1st@amsat.org>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:27 PM
Subject: [aprssig] RE: Garmin Rhino?
>Spider wrote:
>
>>Yes! A serial output port! The 120 is a fantastic little product.
>
>I'm surprised. I thought that the last NPRM from the FCC on FRS clearly
>said that it would be allowed to attach any external devices to these
>things. That's when I lost total interest in them. I figured they
>wouldn't develop anything like the 120.
I would suggest a re-read! If that does not clear it up for you...I'd
suggest contacting the person who wrote it and ask them about the intent.
Any third-party opinion could obviously be mis-leading! Yeah, like that
never happens!!! <g>
Yes, they have a serial port. You can connect your computer to one and use
a mapping program to track them! They sell the mapping program too! Go to
the Garmin web site or do a search for Garmin Rhino 120 and read the specs!
What amazes me is how long they claim they will last on a set of batteries!
The use of the technology now available, does not supprise me at all! Why
the amateur radio manufacturers have not built these for the ham band just
totally amazes me!
Jim, WA6oft
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Subject: RE: Garmin Rhino?
From: "Chris Rose" <kb8uih2@chartermi.com>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:27:54 -0400
X-Message-Number: 14
What data does it output, specifically NMEA 183 data?
I see that a pc cable is included but the site doesn't say specifically that
it is a serial port cable.
The picture shows a round connector like the ps2 mouse port.
Chris
KB8UIH
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Subject: RE: Garmin Rhino?
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:45:07 -0700
X-Message-Number: 16
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Rose" <kb8uih2@chartermi.com>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: [aprssig] RE: Garmin Rhino?
>What data does it output, specifically NMEA 183 data?
>I see that a pc cable is included but the site doesn't say specifically that
>it is a serial port cable.
>The picture shows a round connector like the ps2 mouse port.
>
>Chris
>KB8UIH
You guys are making my head hurt!!! <g> It has a NEMA output and a special
Garmin output and maybe one other...can't remember! the spec is out there
somewhere! Look at the online manual.
Jim
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Subject: My wandering car
From: <owens@nysernet.org>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:08:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 18
I accidentally left my TinyTrak running in my car last night (usually I
turn it off to avoid battery drain). When I woke up this morning, I
discovered that the tracker thought I'd gone for a short drive:
05/25 07:50 43 09.770N 076 07.490W 358ft FN13wd
05/25 07:21 43 09.770N 076 07.490W 407ft FN13wd
05/25 06:51 43 09.770N 076 07.490W 371ft 5mph 313 FN13wd
05/25 06:50 43 09.770N 076 07.480W 367ft 8mph 129 FN13wd
05/25 06:40 43 09.779N 076 07.510W 390ft FN13wd
05/25 06:10 43 09.779N 076 07.510W 407ft FN13wd
05/25 05:41 43 09.790N 076 07.510W 377ft FN13wd
There's an Xastir snapshot showing the path here:
http://www.nysernet.org/~owens/wandering_car.png
As far as I know, the car was unmanned at that time, so I think this must
have been something fooling the GPS, a Tripmate, into thinking that it
was changing position. Is that a regular occurrence? Too few satellites in
view, or some other marginal condition?
Bill N2RKL
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Subject: Re: weekend lawyer question
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:15:43 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 19
On 25 May 2003, Wes Johnston wrote:
>Bob, hurricane data is from a government source, and weather and
>propagation information are permitted (along with music if it's from the
>space shuttle). Rino data does not originate from the government, so by
>and large, it's not permitted.
I dont see where you get that narrow of an interpretation. It prohibits
"programs and signals". Signals to me are waveforms. We are not in any
way taking audio program material or signals. By your interpretation, if
we heard a news cast about a wreck from the local AM station, we could not
repeat that information ovr HAM radio...
>HOWEVER I would say if a ham owns the rino, and you wanna gate HAM RINOS
>thru a permission list at the gateway, that's fine.
Yes, that is what I would do too.
>The real trick would be for a HAM to send a message to the with his
>APRSSERVE passcode. That way, any ham joining in could validate himself
>with the gateway automaticaly. Does the garmin allow you do send a
>status along with the posit? the status could contain your validation
>number so it didn't require you to specifically send the number. Or how
>many characters are permitted in a garmin name? Let's say it's 12. I
>really have no idea, but let's assume 12. the callsign KD4RDB-15 is 9
>characters long. If we had a checksum was calculated on everything BUT
>ssid, and was 3 characters long, I could set my rino's name to
>KD4RDB-15abc , where abc was the checksum. The gateway would see this
>and know I was a valid ham. Really and truely, it could be done in two
>bytes using standard 0-9&a-F characters... and the hyphen between my
>callsign and the SSID isn't needed. Heck, the ssid could be in hex,
>saving one byte (ie -15 = f).
yep, good ideas. Now on to decoding the rino...
Bob
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Subject: RE: Garmin Rhino?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 21
>Why the amateur radio manufacturers have not built these for the ham
>band just totally amazes me!
Probably has to do with economics-101. Owning the GPS code and being
able to sell maybe 10 million of them (Garmin) is a big difference to
having to out-source the GPS hardware from garmin or someone else and
then have a market of only maybe 2000 HAMs.. TO break even on the
development costs you'd have to sell them for 5 times more than what
Garmin can sell them for. And HAMS would never pay it and just complain..
Thus, lets find a way to use the public device for our benefit..
Bob
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