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ZL3AI > APRDIG 23.04.03 09:14l 227 Lines 9193 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Rich Garcia" <k4gps@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:30:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 15
I got to agree here..."The boy that cried wolf syndrome" In my listening
area I don't know how many Peet Brothers Stations have been on the air for
years with really screwy readings. The "not so funny" thing about it is that
the "trustees" of these stations are never on and I really wonder if they
even have packet capabilities. The person who put most of these up is no
longer on APRS either so poor weather readings are very common.
Personally I check my readings against the local conditions every morning
and I also check the rain readings with a manual gauge that was set next to
my station's bucket. Maybe I am off by a few tenth's here and there but at
least they are accurate enough.
People have got to be responsible if they set up a station. It's on RF so
that means you WANT others to see it, don't steer them wrong. If you don't
care how accurate it is then take it off RF and just fool yourself. If you
want it on RF then at least monitor it and fix it when it starts spewing out
wrong readings.
Rich
K4GPS
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Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Cap Pennell" <cap@cruzio.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:46:09 -0700
X-Message-Number: 16
My reply mixed in below:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: On Behalf Of Spider (Jim, WA6OFT)
<snip>
>It's easy enough to change and most all,,,,if not all,,,,the beta testers
>agreed on many of the features the unit now has. Never heard any of these
>concerns.
>I can say honestly that I never gave it a thought! Once you setup your
>program, it stays there when you read a chip....really no big
>deal and only takes seconds to change.
Yes, too few users are aware of our reduced throughput problem on a
congested VHF APRS net. It's surprising so many are clueless after all this
time and endless discussion. Anybody who's experienced slow message ACKs on
VHF has felt some of the effect of reduced throughput due to limited channel
capacity. Unfortunately many users forget that APRS should be no more a
"set it and forget it" mode than is any other amateur radio mode. After
their initial station setup they can't be bothered and leave the thing
running, often for years, with no further concern about digipaths, network
loading, or reduced throughput for the other users. Sad.
<snip>
>On a certain IS network, APRSWXNET is only a fraction of the wx data
>available (less than 10%)....and the idea is to get as real-time as you
>possibly can!
Of course, but the primary network of bandwidth concern is VHF APRS.
There's a much greater channel capacity with the higher speeds of the
Internet Stream.
> The ideal situation is actual "real-time" and anything else is a
>compromise, no matter what the reason, and every network has to
>adjust what it can do based on hardware and software constraints.
Exactly. Ideally too, everybody's ego would be satisfied by being seen
globally and immediately. But for the VHF network to operate, users must
seriously and conservatively evaluate their intended "audience". Who
(where?) is _really_ eager to see all those packets?
<snip>
>Many WX station transmit their WX
>data every 5 minutes and there could be a need for very rapid readings too.
>It really is a very minor issue.
>Of course, this is user selectable, depending on what the user needs.
The "default" WXTrak settings is a minor issue, easily improved. The effect
of digipath and XMIT interval settings used on the VHF network is not minor.
>I hope that this product will encourge more people to get into building
>weather stations and become part of the APRSWXNET. With this product, you
>can put together a fairly good "Home" type remote weather station for under
>$400 complete including the radio and antenna! You'd be hard
>pressed to do that before with a station that would read almost
everything!
Agreed. For many, building your own TinyTrak or WXTrak is a more fun and
much cheaper alternative to a Kantronics KPC3+ TNC. I hope all APRS WX
stations have spent some time going through the links at http://wxqa.com/
and are seeing their accurate data displayed at
http://www-frd.fsl.noaa.gov/mesonet/ .
>Glad to see your call!
<snip>
Thanks! We're all so very happy to see our own calls on the net. That's
often a big part of the problem. hi
I was in Las Vegas last weekend watching the biggest APRS event in the
world, the annual Baker2Vegas race. I saw that with the W6CSP-8 Ibex Pass
digi operating in partnership with W6ACS-2 and N7ZEV-1 as it was, the 40
trackers on the course were getting into the IS in Las Vegas with only
WIDE2-2. Unfortunately, they were all running WIDE4-4!
>Jim, WA6OFT
73, Cap KE6AFE
http://members.cruzio.com/~cap
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Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Russ Chadwick" <russ@wxqa.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:51:56 -0000
X-Message-Number: 17
Comments to these two messages below. For more information on APRSWXNET and
MADIS, see
http://www.wxqa.com/
Russ Chadwick KB0TVJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: WXTrak is now available
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cap Pennell" <cap@cruzio.com>
>To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
>Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 8:49 AM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: WXTrak is now available
>
>>APRSWXNET (NWS official use of APRS WX) only samples the WX once every 15
>>minutes so in most cases more frequent packets are only another source of
>>excess packet collisions, causing reduced throughput for all the other
>>users.
APRSWXNET downloads weather data from findu.com every 15 minutes. This is
due to a lack of computer resources at NOAA, not at findu.com where the data
is available at 5 minute intervals. I have tried to get NOAA to start
acquiring at the faster 5 minute rate, but have not been successful so far.
> Not everything is based and centered around the NWS or APRSWXNET when
>it comes to weather data or any data, for that matter.
Not sure how to respond to this except that the greatest use of weather data
in numerical weather prediction (objective forecasting) and in human weather
prediction (subjective forecasting) is probably in the NWS
>On acertain IS network, APRSWXNET is only a fraction of the wx data
>available (less than 10%)....
The APRSWXNET data are all sent to the MADIS data base which is
approximately 5000 surface stations run by professionals and by
non-professionals, and this number increases and decreases depending on many
contitions. These data are quality checked and then send to many users at
local, state and federal government organizations. There are three
non-professional mesonets in the MADIS database. The largest is APRSWXNET
with about 800 stations sending data via packet radio and the internet. The
next largest is Weather 4You with about 200 stations sending data via the
internet. The smallest is AnythingWeather with about 30 stations sending
data via the internet.
Russ Chadwick KB0TVJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Russ Chadwick" <russ@wxqa.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:12:17 -0000
X-Message-Number: 18
Comments below.
Russ Chadwick KB0TVJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray McKnight" <shortsheep@worldnet.att.net>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Cc: <aprssig@tapr.org>; <cap@cruzio.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:12 PM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: WXTrak is now available
>1000 bad observations are not better than a dozen accurate ones.
>Maybe this is why APRS is ranked by NWS right at the bottom of the scale
>for data reliability, compared to all CWO sources.
I wasn't aware of any NWS ranking of mesonets. I do know that one of the
significant quality issues with APRSWXNET stations is the accurate
adjustment of the barometer reference height and the link below gives a way
to set and track this adjustment.
>I think we should be striving to IMPROVE our observation efforts, not
>just flood the airwaves with thousands of questionable reports.
The main purpose of APRSWXNET is to provide tools for the non-professional
weather station operator to understand and improve the quality of their
data. See
http://www.wxqa.com/aprswxnetqc.html
and note that an APRSWXNET station operator can get the history of the
hourly quality checks on their weather data.
Russ Chadwick KB0TVJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:13:56 -0700
X-Message-Number: 19
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray McKnight" <shortsheep@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Spider'" <spider@rivcom.net>
Cc: <aprssig@tapr.org>; <cap@cruzio.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 11:12 AM
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