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ZL3AI > APRDIG 23.04.03 09:16l 209 Lines 9410 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:57:06 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cap Pennell" <cap@cruzio.com>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 8:49 AM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: WXTrak is now available
>wish the WXTrakConfig.exe program came with WIDE2-2 as the default instead
>of WIDE3-3 and WX Every 10 minutes instead of every 1 minute. Most WX
>stations don't need to send WX over a path of WIDE3-3 once a minute, adding
>aposit packet after every 3 WX packets, as is the program default.
>APRSWXNET (NWS official use of APRS WX) only samples the WX once every 15
>minutes so in most cases more frequent packets are only another source of
>excess packet collisions, causing reduced throughput for all the other
>users.
Hi Cap,
It's easy enough to change and most all,,,,if not all,,,,the beta testers
agreed on many of the features the unit now has. Never heard any of these
concerns.
I can say honestly that I never gave it a thought! Once you setup your
program, it stays there when you read a chip....really no big deal and only
takes seconds to change.
<soapbox on>
Not everything is based and centered around the NWS or APRSWXNET when
it comes to weather data or any data, for that matter.
On acertain IS network, APRSWXNET is only a fraction of the wx data
available (less than 10%)....and the idea is to get as real-time as you
possibly can!
The ideal situation is actual "real-time" and anything else is a
compromise, no matter what the reason, and every network has to adjust what
it can do based on hardware and software constraints. If the capability was
there, you can bet APRSWXNET would be "real-time"...as would every other WX
network out there.
It just isn't real practical. Many WX station transmit their WX data every
5 minutes and there could be a need for very rapid readings too. It really
is a very minor issue.
Of course, this is user selectable, depending on what the user needs.
I hope that this product will encourge more people to get into building
weather stations and become part of the APRSWXNET. With this product, you
can put together a fairly good "Home" type remote weather station for under
$400 complete including the radio and antenna! You'd be hard pressed to do
that before with a station that would read almost everything!
<soapbox off>
Glad to see your call! Thought you fell into that wine cellar during your
wine tasting trip last year! :)
Jim, WA6OFT
www.wa6oft.com
FireNet
www.dwrracesupport.com/fire
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Subject: Re: KPC 3+ and Motorola Maxtrac Quesion
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:16:11 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Cc: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:34 AM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: KPC 3+ and Motorola Maxtrac Quesion
>>I use just the front mic connector for everything....
>>This works on Radius M100, GM300, etc. You can have your volume turned all
>>the way down, so this it's barely heard...which is the way I like it. You
>
>If its a mobile and if you interface your TNC at the discriminator,
>consider adding a PL-100 circuit on receive and turning the volume back up
>to normal. You will not hear any packets, but you are available for a
>"voice alert" for anyone to call you by voice using PL100.
>
>All D7 and D700 users run voice alert. Its like a free additional
>radio monitoring a standard "APRS" voice calling channel.
>
>Bob, wb4apr
I might add that the "headset" audio (pin 8) on the Maxtrac/Radius radios on
the mic jack does go through the mute gate so this (what Bob said) would not
work in my application.
However, what he mentioned is not a bad idea. You can pick, what I call
"good", not yet gated, packet audio (improved S/N over raw discrim audio)
around C561 to bypass the mute gate. At this point you would have the added
benefit of the 3KHZ low-pass filter toknock off some of the rasping
harmonics produced by the far-end over driven transmitters...and trust
me.... there are a ton of them out there! Standard decoupling rules apply.
Disclaimers too! ;)
Jim
WA6OFT
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Subject: Re: WXTrak is now available
From: "Ray McKnight" <shortsheep@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:12:45 -0700
X-Message-Number: 13
Cap - you're absolutely right.
Jim - you never heard these concerns, and never gave it any thought...
That's because you weren't listening, or just ignored it.
The concerns WERE raised, but like many things on APRS,
the developer(s) had their mind made up, and marched to the
beat of their own drum. Early on in the development of WxTrack I
presented FMH-1 and other NWS citing guidelines as the accepted
references for the observation and reporting protocol.
Meteorologists and the scientific community have spent a great deal
of time studying weather and how best to collect data and report it.
Their protocols are based on sound principals that were developed over
many years of research. The vast majority of agencies around the world
have agreed on these standards and apply them in their daily
observations.
This concept of "real-time weather" is a joke, just a dream that has no
relationship to the established worldwide standards. There is a valid
need in specific situations for minute-by-minute observations. But to
confuse those individual circumstances with routine, automated
observations broadcast to the rest of the world only serves to degrade
the integrity of the data and represent APRS weather efforts as merely a
haphazard and uncoordinated group without concern for established
principals.
1000 bad observations are not better than a dozen accurate ones.
Maybe this is why APRS is ranked by NWS right at the bottom of the scale
for data reliability, compared to all CWO sources.
I think we should be striving to IMPROVE our observation efforts, not
just flood the airwaves with thousands of questionable reports.
Please consider what I've said carefully. I NEVER said that WxTrack was
a bad thing. It's just another widget, a tool in our pocket. It's how
we choose to use it that matters.
73's
Ray - WB3ABN
Kingston, WA
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Subject: Re: KPC 3+ and Motorola Maxtrac Quesion
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:26:28 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sharp, KQ4KX" <kq4kx@arrl.net>
To: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Re: KPC 3+ and Motorola Maxtrac Quesion
>The only thing wrong with obtaining rx audio from the discriminator is there
>is no de-emphasis circuit. This will result in the TNC having problems
>decoding because the transmitted packet would be pre-emphasized. I have
>read that the TNC must see equal levels of mark & space tones for proper
>decoding. I'm guessing that since APRS (and most VHF 1200 baud packet) is
>using "off the shelf" radios utilizing direct to the mic & spkr signal
>levels we should encourage standardization.
This is very true. However, we are not talking about the entire voice
spectrum, not even an octive, only the tones which may be off a few db.
Under weak signal conditions S/N really comes into play and this is where
quality filters come into the picture. It is very easy to take discriminator
audio and couple into it using a simple RC network to roll off the audio so
that the tones would be flat under test conditions. In the real world,
you'll find many different ratios to contend with.
I do not know if this happens any more but "back in the day" (as my kids
say) ham clubs use to sponsor "tune-up" days.
I have not heard of one of these in years! Someone somewhere had a service
monitor and a day was set aside where hams could come and test their rigs
and adjust them on freq and set audio levels, etc. Without a doubt packet
audio levels always seemed to be on the hot side.
With the Maxtracs and Radius Radios, people will find if they plug a KPC3 or
3+ into them thru the Mic connector, they WILL have to adjust the TX audio
up provided the radio had been set up correctly and the KPC were at the
default levels to begin with. Many of these radios were very narrowband
radios to begin with and 2.5khz deviation was normal (and perfectly
acceptable for packet). I have 7 of these radios (yes, 7 (and looking for
more)) in my motorhome and two being used as remote weather stations. They
are great little radios but still have some what of a high price tag...even
on Ebay, compared to some of the ham radios...like the ADI's etc.
Now if you want to talk MaraTracs....oh baby....what a radio! When you
think MaraTrac, think "Programmable Mitrek". What an awesome package that
is!!! Motorola Rules!!! (snicker,snicker and ducking from all the flying
diddle sticks from the GE folks!)
Jim, WA6OFT
www.wa6oft.com
FireNet
www.dwrracesupport.com/fire
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