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ZL3AI > APRDIG 08.02.04 13:14l 222 Lines 9326 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: APRS data into mapping programs
From: Frank - KG6JVE <kg6jve@pasadena.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:57:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 19
I just noticed the UI-View ODBC program. Thanks
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Mark A. Lewis wrote:
>This could be done automatically pretty easily with a query directly to
>the database, then manipulate the data as needed. I think you can even
>query from MapPoint if you setup an ODBC connection for it.
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Subject: Re: FindU maps
From: Gonzales Andy <agonzales@arc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:13:24 -0800
X-Message-Number: 20
Has anyone tried asking MapBlast whats up ?
--
Andy Gonzales
KG6RWO
NASA / Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000
Bldg. N-244, Rm. 240
MS 244-19
agonzales@arc.nasa.gov
650-604-0309
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Subject: Re: MapPoint, etc and Xastir or UI-View
From: "Stephen H. Smith" <WA8LMF2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:22:49 -0800
X-Message-Number: 21
Adi Linden wrote on 2/5/2004, 8:46 AM:
>Are any of the commercially available mapping packages like MS MapPoint
>useable with Xastir or UI-View?
If you check the UI-View website
http://www.ui-view.com
you will see that MapPoint (both the Euro version and the North American
version) are explicitly supported with the UI-Point add-in. Details on
the UI-View MapPoint page at:
http://www.ui-view.com/uipoint32/index.shtml
However MapPoint operates as an external program with data passed to it
by UI-View. This is in contrast to the Precision Mapping server that
actually uses Undertow Software's Precision Mapping 5.0 or 6.0 data
directly inside the main UI-View program via a Undertow-provided add-on
(the PMap server control or "OCX").
[ You install Undertow's Precision Mapping Traveller program in order to
get the map DATA on your hard disk but then don't even use the PMap
PROGRAM at all for APRS. You are free to use it, however, for a moving
map display of your own position, separately and simultaneously with the
UI-View APRS application. ]
By contrast, MapPoint runs as a completely separate program -- the third
party add-ons for UI-View such as UI-Height-Track (that plots the line
of travel of moving mobiles) won't work with MapPoint displays.
Also quoting UI-View's author's note on the website about MapPoint:
"Limitations
MapPoint is a big, slow, clunky program, and it has a few bugs. I cannot
do anything about those basic facts.
The biggest problem with the slowness is how long it takes to add a
pushpin to a MapPoint map. (Pushpins are used to display the APRS
icons.) On the PC I use for development - an 800MHz Athlon with 512MB -
I can add about 1,000 icons in one second to a map in UI-View32, I can
add only about *seven* pushpins in a second to a MapPoint map, and it
gets much slower the more you add. "
This means you must have a fast PC (greater than 500 MHz) with a lot of
RAM (256 MB or more) and hard disk space (The complete no-CD-required
install of MapPoint North America 2004 takes about 1.2GB of disk space)
to get reasonably responsive performance.
The chronic problem with using the mapping data in retail programs like
Precision Mapping, MapPoint, Street Atlas, TopoUSA, etc is that the data
is always packaged in proprietary formats that only the companion
program can unpack and display; i.e. you normally can't use the data
alone directly with other programs.
This makes using these databases with Xastir nearly impossible
since it would require making a complex graphically-oriented Windows
program run in Linux.
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.com
Ham Radio/Mobile SSTV page: http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf/ham
APRS Stuff
http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf/aprs
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Subject: Re: maps
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:55:08 -0500
X-Message-Number: 22
I was not talking about Steve Dimse, your users or FINDU. I was hoping to
encourage some thinking outside the box with regards to open system design
that would scale to a typical amateur's high end DSL system, not a dedicated
server at a 24x7 T3 co-location facility.
(do note in the prior response I made a point to change the title and deleted
any and all references to your products.)
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 02/05/2004
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Subject: Re: maps
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:32:50 -0500
X-Message-Number: 23
On 2/5/04 at 1:55 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>I was not talking about Steve Dimse, your users or FINDU. I was hoping to
>encourage some thinking outside the box with regards to open system design
>that would scale to a typical amateur's high end DSL system, not a dedicated
>server at a 24x7 T3 co-location facility.
Sorry if I missed that. There are problems with DSL servers though. First,
more and more DSL providers are prohibiting server operation. Second, some
DSL providers (and most cable modem providers) are agressively persuing
usage caps, even on "unlimited" accounts. Finally, most consumer DSL lines
are really ADSL, with upstream bandwidths of 128k or 256k bps. This means
that the transfer times for a DSL user connecting to a DSL server would be
5 to 10 times greater than a server on at a co-lo site. findU was very slow
while on my home DSL, there was a big difference in responsiveness when it
moved to a co-lo site.
Furthermore, though it may seem counter-intuitive, heavy usage of the
upstream side of a DSL renders the downstream side all but useless (because
of very long waits for the upstream requests and ACKs to get sent). When
findU was on the DSL line, though it only used 5% of the downstream
bandwidth, I used a dialup connection for my Mac's connection because it
was much faster than surfing through the DSL. Anyone considering running a
popular server on a DSL line needs to be aware of the affect on both their
usage of the line and the potential hassle from the DSL provider (you may
remember Telocity was not pleased with my use of their DSL line, cutting
off service twice and threatening me several more times). I believe there
are plenty of hams with access to good server sites, and do not think there
is a need to suffer with the problem associated with ADSL.
As I had previously stated, I think the solution for all of APRS (not just
findU) is a distributed map server (probably only needs two or three
machines, though that depends on the processing requirements of the code)
with the APRSworld maps as part of the solution.
I'm still hoping someone will come forward with a plan to develop a map
server that can serve the needs of the world APRS community, and not just
the US.
Steve K4HG
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Subject: Re: MapPoint, etc and Xastir or UI-View
From: Adi Linden <adil@adis.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:40:10 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 24
>The biggest problem with the slowness is how long it takes to add a
>pushpin to a MapPoint map. (Pushpins are used to display the APRS
>icons.) On the PC I use for development - an 800MHz Athlon with 512MB -
>Ican add about 1,000 icons in one second to a map in UI-View32, I can
>add only about *seven* pushpins in a second to a MapPoint map, and it
>gets much slower the more you add. "
That solution is totally unsuitable for me then. The netebook I have
availble for running APRS is an older P160 with 64MB (hopefully I'll find
more memory somewhere). Certainly inadequate for running the MapPoint and
UI-View by the sounds of it.
I have the Toporama images for Canada but they do not have street level
detail. With the changes that are occuring to MapBlast it would benice to
just be able to buy the maps for North America and use them with APRS
client software.
Adi
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Subject: Re: maps
From: James Jefferson <jj@aprsworld.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:12:06 -0600
X-Message-Number: 25
I don't have any significant shortage of bandwidth. I have approximately a
70 megabit pipe to the internet and a 150 megabit pipe to internet2.
On Thursday 05 February 2004 11:25 am, you wrote:
>How about sharing the hits over a number of AprsWorld servers? The key
>issue we have learned here is bandwidth is not free, and as soon as you
>start using a significant amount of it, for some strange reason folks want
>you to pay for it. If we keep the same line of thinking in the past, we
>will repeat the same mistakes. APRS-IS has to be a distributed system,
>running "under the radar" in its current economic model.
>
>Maybe something as simple as rotating IP addresses in a dns server? I
>suspect keeping the logs in sync might be a problem, but on the other hand,
>it would allow something like this to exist on the typical residential DSL
>line. And of course, maps don't need to be hosted on the same server.
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