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ZL3AI > APRDIG 30.01.04 08:31l 252 Lines 9242 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Jan 27, 2/4
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: MOBILE and "has-moved"
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:15:20 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 8
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Curt, WE7U wrote:
>Trying to determine whether a station is mobile based on icon is
>fundamentally flawed as well: You can't depend on a user to set the
>symbol properly.
You are too focused on your own solution. The intent is not to determine
ACCURATELY if a given symbol is a MOBILE or not it is whether the PERSON
who CHOSE his symbol CHOSE a MOBILE symbol. Whether he is dumb or bright
or what he selects is his choice. But if he chooses a CAR symbol, then it
falls into the category that APRS has defined as MOBILE.
>People choose their symbol for all kinds of reasons.
>I've found it an unreliable indicator. Setting a flag based on
>more-than-one-position-heard has been a much more reliable indicator for
>us.
I say again. *Your reliable indicator is an indicator of MOTION. I agree
it is an excellent choice. But it is *different* from the set of MOBILE
SYMBOLS. In order to avoid CONFUSION across platofroms (APRS is supposed
to be a standard) then I am asking you to rename your "has-moved"
definition from being called "MOBILE" to something else. I suggest
calling it "MOVED"...
>>Its only a name change to avoid USER ambiguity. I request that XASTIR
>>and any other software that attempts to identify MOBILES, NOT use the
>>MOVING or has-moved criteria. If you use that criteria, then call it
>>MOVING or HAVE-MOVED. But dont call it MOBILE. That word is reserved
>>for the subset of APRS symbols that represent "mobiles" whether they
>>have moved at your event or not...
And whether they have been properly selected by the users or not. Doesnt
matter. The term "MOBILE" as used in APRS has been defined to be a
subset of SYMBOLS that are usually thought to represent "mobiles". We
cannot have multiple definitions of terms or we just make APRS worse for
it...
>>Look up mobile and moving in the on-line dictionaries. The
>>definitions of interest are so close as to be nearly one and the
>>same.
Great! THen I am sure that XASTIR team should have no problem then
accepting the term "MOVING" to refer to their selection based on movement
as opposed to the APRS definition of MOBILE which refers to the subset of
MOBILE symbols.
They represent two different things. They must have two different names.
It is good that the dictionary treats them as almost synonymous so that
most people will not be confused.
de WB4APR, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS-WG dead?, was re: Attended vs Unattended
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:18:33 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 9
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Scott Miller wrote:
>I haven't seen any traffic on the spec list in ages. Is it still going?
>
>I'm glad to see that you're still taking a lead role, Bob. A lot of
>projects in the open source community (the Linux kernel, for one) have
>demonstrated that it's important to have a single focal point. Left up to
>committee, nothing would ever get done.
>
>That's not to say I actually AGREE with your decisions, but it's better than
>stagnation. =]
Yes, committees are good for resolving conflicts, but when the path is
clear, its better to just move out. I guess I have used the general
APRSSIG for discussing some of these issues. So this SPEC list is still
alive, but maybe I should use it more. I dont even know if all the
authors are on it?
Bob
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
PCsat WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/pcsat.html
ISS-APRS FAQ: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/iss-faq.html
CUBESAT Designs http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/cubesat.html
APRS LIVE pages http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
APRS SATELLITES http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/astars.html
MIM/Mic-E/Mic-Lite http://ssdl.stanford.edu/mims/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: MOBILE versus "has-moved"
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:08:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 10
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Bob Bruninga wrote:
> Mobiles if any of these Primary symbols: '<=>0COPRSUXY[^abefgjkpsuv
> Mobiles if any of these altrnte symbols: /0>AKS^nsuv
> Weather if any of these altrnte symbols: (*:<@BDEFGHIJTW_egptw{
> Digis if symbol is #&I <== notice this includes HF and Igates too
>
>Again, this is not a requirement, but it is a selection
>criteria when one wants to view a "selection". I am not demanding the
>everyone use this criteria, but I offer it to anyone that wants to have
>the same consistent definition of what constitutes a "mobile" SYMBOL in
>APRS...
>
>This is independent of MOVEment, past, or present. MOVEMENT is another
>excellent selection criteria, but different. That is my only point.
Looking at our current version, the selection criteria is:
Select Stations
Select Fixed Stations
Select Moving Stations
Select WX Stations
Select Object/Items
...
You're suggesting that we add something like "Select Mobile Stations". I
contend that will only confuse our users (not that our users are easily
confused!). Perhaps something like "Select Stations w/Mobile Symbol" would
work without being too confusing.
I see little utility in adding this feature, but it's not important enough
for me to argue strongly against. If you think it important enough for
your instant-on tactical view, we can add this feature to Xastir later.
We're in a release cycle right now, so it won't be immediate. Adding it to
our feature request list will be based on your response to this thread.
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: MOBILE versus "has-moved"
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:43:35 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 11
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Curt, WE7U wrote:
>Looking at our current version, the selection criteria is:
>
> Select Fixed Stations
> Select Moving Stations
> Select WX Stations
Ah that looks perfect.
>You're suggesting that we add something like "Select Mobile
>Stations". I contend that will only confuse our users (not that our
>users are easily confused!).
No, I am happy with the way you have it. I was only concerned because I
was led to believe that you had named the selection as "MOBILE".
>Perhaps something like "Select Stations w/Mobile Symbol" would work
>without being too confusing.
Yes, if you wanted to add that category to be consistent with other
programs. Maybe just "Select Mobile Symbols" .. (or ICONS if you like)
>I see little utility in adding this feature, but it's not important
>enough for me to argue strongly against. If you think it important
>enough for your instant-on tactical view, we can add this feature to
>Xastir later.
yes, that is fine, it is not that important. But for what it is worth, I
have now provided the list of the "mobile" subset of SYMBOLS for your
future use.. and, thankfully, we have resolved that your current
nomenclature is consistent with its use and not in conflict with the
MOBILE SYMBOLS category should you add it later...
thanks
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS-WG dead?, was re: Attended vs Unattended
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:18:15 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12
OK, good to hear. The APRS-WG is alive, but it is just you alone now.
Should all proposals be re-submitted that the old APRS-WG never acted on?
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 01/27/2004
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS-WG dead?, was re: Attended vs Unattended
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:45:22 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 13
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Jeff King wrote:
>OK, good to hear. The APRS-WG is alive, but it is just you alone now.
No, it is not just me. It is all the authors.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: CW???? station display
From: "Jacob Tennant" <k8jwt@adelphia.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 15:57:20 -0500
X-Message-Number: 14
Is there any way to exclude a station from displaying on the screen?
I am on the internet feed with WinAPRS 2.7.2 registered and have so many
local CW stations that it is annoying.
Jacob Tennant-K8JWT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: FW: [TM-D700] APRS RELAY
From: "Dave Sloan" <desloan@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:23:24 -0700
X-Message-Number: 15
Can anyone on the list assist with this issue?
Thanks,
Dave N0EOP
-----Original Message-----
From: wa6ifi@arrl.net [mailto:wa6ifi@arrl.net]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:25 PM
To: TM-D700@yahoogroups.com
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