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ZL3AI > APRDIG 17.11.03 11:25l 235 Lines 10205 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Nov 06, 4/5
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: "Paths" ?
From: Bill Vodall - WA7NWP <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:40:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 23
>Is there a "one size fits all" path ? I run a KPC3+ with only a GPS
>input so changing paths on the fly is not an option.
>
>Robert / KD4PBC
I'd suggest the one truly universal path is:
RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: DX cluster spots on APRS (the RIGHT way)
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:12:24 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 24
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Steve Dimse wrote:
>>Ah, but the definition of the DX SPOT ICON is what includes the 250 mile
>>callsign-prefix-plotting ambiguity circle of a DX spot, not the official
>>"position ambiguity concept". (which does only go to 60 miles)...
>>
>But even 250 miles isn't enough. This guy seems to be using a position for each
>number in the US, all 4's are sent with the same position, 5 use another
>position, and so on, but as we all know, people move between callsign areas
>without getting new calls. Besides, e even if the 250 mile is radius and not
>diameter, the 4 call area is nearly double that 500 mile circle!
You are completely right. Back when we thought all this up, there was no
Eupropean activity, and APRS was a totallly USA centric system. THus,
there were no such things as USA calls showing up on DX spots. I see now
the problem you are addressing, that to this French station, ALL usa calls
are DX and so we have a problem. The 250 mile radius seemed to match just
about all the rest of the world except for the USA and Russia.
Hummh... Nothing comes immediatley to mind as an easy fix...
>>Remember, the concept of "ICON" never entered into APRS until WinAPRS used
>>them as a simplistic approach to APRS displays. Thus overlooking the fact
>>that APRS "SYMBOLS" also have many ATTRIBUTES. Here are some of the
>>ATTRIBUTES of an APRS SYMBOL that are left out of MOST CLIENT PROGRAMS:
>>
>>1) Message capable or not (White or Gray)
>>2) Digipeating or not (Green or not)
>>3) Dead reckoned (CYAN or not)
>>4) Moving (light Blue or not)
>>5) SOmeone elses Object (Purple)
>>6) Your own OBJECT (yellow)
>>7) Ambiguity circle around it proportional to ambiguity
>>8) Emergency or unrecognized symbol (Red)
>>9) 250 mile circle if a DX spot symbol
>
>I do understand this is the way you set up APRSdos, but to developers
>and users of other systems, it makes no sense. In a windowing
>environment, it makes much more sense to be able to point at an object
>and get all the details, rather than to try to convey a few of bits of
>information with color. Monochrome icons (excuse me, symbols) just won't
>fly in a windowed environment. There is a reason no other APRS program
>implements your color symbol plan, and I think you need to accept that.
Yes, I accept that completely, and I do not expect them to use "colors"
but I DO EXPECT them to convey the same attributes in whatever manner
they can do within the limitations of their programming environment.
The attributes are part of what should be presented to the user on *every*
ICON. But as I agreed at the APRS SPEC meetings, how they do that is up
to them...
>As to plotting ambiguity circles, fortunately virtually no one transmits
>ambiguous positions, if they did I can imagine the mess that would make
>on your map!
AH, but the ambiguity circle only shows up at the map scale below which
the ICON no longer is big enough to cover the ambiguity. On the Map of
the USA, even 10 mile ambiguity circles are smaller than the ICON.
Even at the 64 mile scale most ICONS are still larger than the 1 mile
ambiguity circle, again, still no noticible mess at all...
At the 16 mile scale, the 1 mile ambiguity circles are noticible, but in
most places there arent more than a dozen or so station on the map at that
scale to be any issue at all. And probably fewer than 1 APRS station in a
thousand is using it.. And certainly at that scale, the importance
of showing that the person is somewhere in that circle is a far better
presentation of ground-truth, than having his ICON squarely in exactly a
place where he isnt...
Remember, the only ICONS that use ambiguity are the ones that are
ambiguous, and it is important that those ICONS be clearly identifiable to
any casual observer to be ambiguous and over how great an area... Else,
the APRS display is providing missleading information...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: Kenwood D-700 and KPC-9612
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:14:19 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 25
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Reid Crowe wrote:
>Can i use both 1200 and 9600 baud on the D700 at the same time through
>the data port?
I have an external KPC-9612+ TNC connected on the data port and that gives
me 3 simultanelous TNC's on any combination of the 2 bands and baud rates.
I usually run the internal TNC on band A for APRS at the same time I am
using Band B for Satellite ops with PCsat on both 1200 and 9600 at the
same time...
de WB4APR, bob
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Subject: Re: SSID Conventions?
From: "Richard Amirault" <ramirault@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:41:02 -0500
X-Message-Number: 26
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Subject: [aprssig] Re: SSID Conventions?
>I've seen this before, and I still can't help thinking that it's totally
>pointless. I've got more than one station, so I have to choose one of the
>other SSIDs. Yet all of the non-zero SSIDs have other meaning attached to
>them - meaning that's completely duplicated in the symbol system. More
>importantly, there's no way to indicate that the SSID is significant, so
>even if you do have a tracker on an ambulance, how do you tell that apart
>from hundreds of other -1 stations that AREN'T ambulances? Is there
>something I'm missing here?
SSID numbers *only* indicate/create the icon/symbol when there is no *other*
indicators sent with the packet. THUS to indicate that the SSID is
significant you only need to include NO other indicators.
I run a APRS WX station as N1JDU-3 and it shows as a WX station, not a fire
truck. My mobile runs as -9 (car) but my Kenwood D-700 can choose a number
of different icons to attach to my -9 packet. Other Kenwood users use -7 (or
any other available number)
Richard Amirault N1JDU Boston,
MA, USA
www.erols.com/ramirault "Go Fly A Kite"
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Subject: Re: SSID Conventions?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:53:25 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 27
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Scott Miller wrote about SSID conventions:
>I've seen this before, and I still can't help thinking that it's totally
>pointless. I've got more than one station, so I have to choose one of the
>other SSIDs.
You are completly right, but when you begin using up your SSID numbers, it
is often convenient for you to use the convention so that other users can
usually tell what kind of station you are from just seeing your callsign
flip across the screen.
When I see a -9, I KNOW it is a mobile.
When I see a -7, I KNOW it is an HT or mobile with MESSAGE capabitily
When I see a -14, I KNOW it is probably a long-haul trucker
When I see a -11, I suspect it might be a Balloon and since they have
limited life times, I will then take the time to switch to the ICON
screen to see if they really are a ballooon worth chasing..
>Yet all of the non-zero SSIDs have other meaning attached to them -
>meaning that's completely duplicated in the symbol system. More
>importantly, there's no way to indicate that the SSID is significant, so
>even if you do have a tracker on an ambulance, how do you tell that
>apart from hundreds of other -1 stations that AREN'T ambulances? Is
>there something I'm missing here?
Yes, you may be confusing the TWO different uses of SSID's though you do
allude to them:
1) DUMB TRACKERS - If the tracker only puts out a raw GPS data, then the
only way to conveny the ICON is in the TOCALL or the SSID. Some TNC's
only send GPS data to the built-in TNC TOCALL of BEACON, thus, SSID is the
only way to have an ICON for that tracker... THerefore, ALL of the SSID's
have a unique definition, but **** it only applies if the packet is a RAW
GPS data, it does *not* apply in any other case... ANd there are so few
raw-GPS trackers any more that this use is rare...
2) CONVENTION: Here is the 99% normal usage of SSID's in APRS, and that
is as I have described in my first paragraph, that it is a visual clue on
callsign alone of the type of station... As CONVENTIONS, only the ones I
have mentioned are in common use, and so even I dont try to use the SSID
convention except for the common ones:
>>Sailboat (SSID = 5)
>>Kenwood D7 or D700 (SSID = 7) <== A definate convention
>>Power Boat or D700 (SSID = 8) <== Users with D7 & 700 may use this
>>CAR (SSID = 9) <== THE most common
>>Motorcycle (SSID = 10) <=== most motorcycles use this one
>>BALLOON (SSID = 11) <== ALL balloons use this one
>>REC. VEHICLE (SSID = 13)
>>TRUCK (SSID = 14) <== ALL truckers use this one
>>VAN (SSID = 15)
IN practice it works quite well, Most of us only have one sailboat with
APRS or one power boat or one VAN or one 18 wheel truck, or one
Motorcycle, etc..
Home stations can still use -0, -1, -2, -3, and -4... and still they have
not duplicated any, nor confused others by not sticking to the convention.
The REAL value, like I say, is with Kenwoods, and HUD's and any other
display that flashes only a callsign on a tiny window. When I see a -9, I
can ASSUME he is another nearby mobile and not have to go look at the map
to see...
Using the convention is very practical and useful for others...
de WB4APR, Bob
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