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ZL3AI > APRDIG 24.10.03 15:02l 235 Lines 10261 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Dave VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:35:00 -0500
X-Message-Number: 17
At 10:55 AM 10/22/2003 -0500, Doug Younker wrote:
>I don't have an URL at hand, but the project is pretty straight forward,
>most camper suppliers will stock the solid state isolator needed.
Deep cycle batteries often don't have the same charge voltage as car
batteries.
Close, but if you want best life, you set the voltage according to the
mfgr's reccomendations, and you adjust for temperature.
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Tyler Allison" <tyler@allisonhouse.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:21:26 -0400 (GMT+4)
X-Message-Number: 18
>Generally the toughest part is finding a good way to mount the second
>battery pan in the engine compartment.
Unless you are like me and your car has the battery in the trunk near the
spare tire (Saturn ION)
-Tyler
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Dave VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:30:52 -0500
X-Message-Number: 19
At 02:21 PM 10/22/2003 -0400, Tyler Allison wrote:
>>Generally the toughest part is finding a good way to mount the second
>>battery pan in the engine compartment.
>
>Unless you are like me and your car has the battery in the trunk near the
>spare tire (Saturn ION)
Or you don't have a trunk!
Gel cells in general don't like high temperatures either, another thing
that car batteries do better than gels.
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Subject: Re: second battery
From: JD Erskine <VA7OTC@rac.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:43:42 -0700
X-Message-Number: 20
At 01:40 22/10/03 -0400, JBCrafts wrote:
snip
>Each system is connected to the charging system thru a battery isolator. I
>also have a remote control (relay) that will tie both systems together if
>for some reason the chassis battery failed and I could not start the engine
>OR the coach batteries failed and I could not start the generator.
>
snip
>Bob K8YS
Similar set-ups here. Former 1980 Subaru 1600 GL wagon (aka "The Porcupine"
or "The AGI") had a group 24 cranking batt and a group 24 deep cycle for
the HF rig, 2m FM mobile, 70cm FM mobile and loose Aero VHF, M100 & TNC for
packet... Batteries were fed from stock alternator and standard 2 diode
isolator. Worked fine, didn't boil deep cycle.
Current 1990 Isuzu Trooper V6 has group 27 cranking and group 24 deep cycle
for above gear and 12VDC cooler. Couldn't use basic diode isolator since
alternator has an _externally excited_ field. The guts of the special (more
expensive) isolator for this configuration include a third diode which
allows some current back to the alternator from the battery so the whole
thing will start (need some lines of force to cut!). I chose instead to put
in a constant duty "RV" solenoid instead. I can take the relay pull down
current from either battery so I can "jump start" myself if the cranking
battery is low/dead (i.e. lights left on...) I've drained the deep cycle
running the Coolatron over a four day wknd without charging and had a fresh
cranking battery at the end. Just need to get on the highway and be happy
about the state of the cranking battery before kicking in the solenoid to
charge the deep cycle. Really bad, cold weather when I lived in Alberta and
went on back country/ski mountaineering trips wasn't a problem since I
could start from both batteries every now and again.
I'm getting mobile again and whether running a remote base from the mobile,
a cross band repeater, APRS beaconing/relay of posits or VHF+ Rovering
without otherwise running the vehicle engine, I would hesitate to do so on
the cranking battery on a regular basis given some locations I would tend
to go to.
In response to a couple of comments I think there's been so much chat about
this and the APP thread since a. it's a change from other threads
(regardless of how necessary they may be) and b. it's something many have
direct experience with, believe they have something to say, and can
understand fairly easily. Concrete.
Also didn't anyone with strong reponses notice from the original post that
it didn't appear to have been a planned event? Too subtle. ;{D
Thanks for the bandwidth.
Cheers, JD
John D. Erskine
mailto:VA7OTC@rac.ca or mailto:sailargh@victoria.tc.ca
Victoria Nautical Song Circle http://victoria.tc.ca/Culture/Vnsc/
Island Thyme Morris http://www.islandnet.com/~jcarver/is_thyme.html
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:10:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 21
The degree to which we each hold the term 'seriously' is at issue.
I'm a skier. Which means that between 90 and 100 times a year my car
is in an environment that late at night and fairly extreme temperature
conditions it had BETTER start. ANY degrading of the 'back end' of
my battery life is VERY serious. And probably to a lot of people in
northern areas like Vermont as well.
I can easily get 4 years out of a battery in the Intrepid. I replaced the
last one, 'just in case'.
But when I got my Alinco I ran it in cross band repeat. I didn't realize
all the ramifications of doing so, like the power setting is global. If
you need the power to make a contact, the 'other side' also uses the power.
Even if you're only 100 feet away from the car, you may be using 35w to
talk that 100 feet because you need the 45w on the other band to make the
contact. Ran the battery down and the car needed jumped twice that week.
That winter my just over 1 year old battery failed me.
Yep, it may be my definition of 'seriously' when I think that degrading of
the battery left me stranded in 5 below weather, and AAA takes over 2
hours to respond...
On the other hand, you may say it doesn't apply to you so...
Is there a difference? I have two big Hondas. The CBX has absolutely no
'extra' electrics. No electric fan, it's air cooled (with an air vented
oil cooler that gives and extra chill to the center 4 cylinders). I've
gotten 7 years out of a battery, with care. And STILL start an inline 6
cylinder with 4 camshafts, and a jackshaft driven by an oil-tensioned
jackshaft. Trust me, the bike is SERIOUSLY difficult to turn over manually.
On the other hand, I also have a Gold Wing Interstate. Uses the SAME
battery as the CBX. It even has (well, some models used to) an optional
kick start. It's water cooled, with electric fan. The heat in the battery
compartment in driving is actually less extreme than on the CBX. I also
have a stereo on the Interstate. And a 2M Kenwood. All told, it's a power
hog, and the electrics get run without the motor running at times. I have
yet to go 3 whole years on the Interstate for a battery.
Mike
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Mark - N2PGD <n2pgd@cox.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:57:23 -0400
X-Message-Number: 22
Daron,
>On another note, I can't find the ultimate inline fuse holder. I use a
>littlefuse product that comes in a kit with two halves, spring, and two
>solder on ends. I don't like having a butt splice connector, so I use
>these for everything to make a finished looking project. However,
>getting anything larger than #12 wire in them doesn't work. In the
>olden days, Motorola, Midland and others had a nice fuse holder that
>would handle up to 10 or even 8 gage wire. It was an inline job, and I
>think it may have even come as a kit so you could install it on your own
>wire. Anyone have a source for this or a similar kit for 10 gage wire
>that doesn't already have a pigtail on it?
Do you have any high end auto audio shops around you? I have #4 wire
running in my car and found some really great glass fuse holders at a local
store. They weren't cheap, $14 each or something, but they are built like
tanks and accepted the #4 wire without a problem. They do not have any
sort of pigtail on them. The audio shops use them to wire up the big
sub-woofers I'm sure you have heard traveling down the road ;)
Mark
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "tvsjr@sprynet.com" <tvsjr@sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:32:08 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
X-Message-Number: 23
Keep in mind that most audio places totally screw you over on pricing.
Average markup is in the range of hundreds of percent. However, most of the
audio gear out there is pretty nice, and substitutes are hard to find (for
instance, it's difficult - I've looked - to find 1/0ga. wire that's
reasonably flexible - most wire out there is a few strands of 12ga.-14ga.
solid, while the audio products I'm using are 7 ropes of 7 ropes of 86
36ga. strands each.)
I'm a dealer for Tsunami Autosound products and use their equipment for all
of the major wiring in my Expedition (including 140A breakers up front, a
pair (red/black) of 1/0ga. wire running to the rear, power distribution
from 1/0ga. to 4ga., 100A circuit breaker for 4ga. running to forward radio
console, etc.) For smaller distribution, I use Scientific Dimensions power
strips - single run in up to 4ga., 6 runs up to 10ga. out with individual
blade fuses. Every radio (nearly two dozen) and other electronic device is
individually fused so a chafed/crimped/cut wire will only take out one unit
rather than several (the one failure I've suffered caused me to immediately
dump the master breaker up front - however, in an emergency situation, I
want the option to keep running.)
Daron-
Check out:
http://www.tsunami-autosound.com/power_distribution/fuse_holders.asp I use
the Lok-Nut devices and have been very pleased with them - they don't
loosen up or cause problems over long-term use. Give them a call - they
should be willing to sell direct as well. The FBW903-AGU looks pretty good
for what you're doing.
73,
Terry/N5RSE
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