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ZL3AI > APRDIG 19.09.03 10:27l 217 Lines 9777 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1944-ZL3AI
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 16, 9/9
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Paths
From: "Germino" <mgermino@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:43:24 -0700
X-Message-Number: 60
>>more than 2 hops are ever needed. And it is better to use WIDE,WIDE1-1
>>than WIDE2-2 because then the packet has the advantage of arriving with
>>the first digi being identified. This is valuable information...
>>
>>de WB4APR, BOb
>>
Bob: Is WIDE,WIDE1-1 better than WIDE,WIDE ?
Mike
73, AD6AA
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Subject: Re: Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:17:36 -0700
X-Message-Number: 61
From: "Gerry Creager N5JXS" <gerry.creager@tamu.edu>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Cc: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:45 PM
Subject: [aprssig] Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
>Technical comments: If not interested, hit <DELETE> now.
>
>While it seems like a good idea, it's not always practical. If you can
>retain X & Y scale and ratios, you're probably OK, but I'd not plan to
>have a 1:250k map *BE* 1:250k when scaled to 11x17"
>
>Gerry
And this is correct, Scott. I need to clarify that I would use the 11x17"
to provide the portion of the map I needed for the search area....not
changing dimensions of the original map. The 15" x 10.5 atlas maps in the
1:250k are big enough to cover an area for most all searches....you would
not want to walk across the area they do cover!!! I've venture to say in
many or maybe most cases a standard size 8 x 11 copy of a portion of a map
is all you need speaking from just my search experiences. In fact, our
copier only does 8x11 in the comm van. Curt is this what you guys find???
This is where the CD maps and a good map program would come in very handy.
Select the part of the map you need and print it....then make a bunch of
copies of it. Rain can hose up a map! Ziploc bags are handy to keep in the
GO BAG! But hey! I live in the middle of the desert...when it rains here,
we stand outside and look up! ;)
You could also be called to do a Hasty (meaning fast attack) search for a
vehicle being handed 15 minute maps with a search area of a 10 mile radius
from the IC. You might find the vehicle only to begin a new search with
trackers to find the people who left the vehicle! And, need a new set of
maps...possibly more defined with 7.5' resolution. That is where the
mobile IC shines...when they can print out new maps in the field and make
copies!
SORRY for the off topic SAR stuff, but working in a tactical communications
unit is so much more than the individual communications modes. I wished
more Hams that had their SH** together would get involved with SAR in their
Counties!
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: Re: Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
From: "Mark Fellhauer" <sparkfel@qwest.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:25:01 -0500
X-Message-Number: 62
At 08:45 PM 9/16/2003, Gerry Creager N5JXS wrote:
>Injet printed maps are problemmatic in the field: The ink smears or washes
>off. Worse, if your printer "scales to fit page" you no longer have a
>truly scaled page. Stretched and compressed maps are the bane of a
>cartographer's existence.
Depends on the printer, depends on the ink, depends on the paper. The
Epson 1280 comes to mind - $xxx MSRP. Weatherproof paper is about 75 cents
to a buck a sheet.
This printer can be found in the cartographic departments of many
universities.
Mark
KC7BXS
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Subject: Re: Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:42:34 -0400
X-Message-Number: 63
The refill kits I have for my HP 660Cse have waterproof black ink, but
the color ink is still water soluble.
A REAL problem with photos. With photos, the picture quality really
depends on the ink forming 'beads' on the glossy surface of photo paper.
They take forever to dry. Sneeze anywhere in the room and it seems
you see little 'circle drops' on your photos!
I solve this by using a hair dryer to 'bake' my photos when I print them.
Then once they are pretty warm to the touch, I let them cool down and then
slip them in cellophane jackets. (Slip a non-cured photo into a liner and
then try to take it out a few days later sometime!)
You can use heat with standard prints like maps, but again, the paper
will fall apart if it gets wet.
One trick is to get FedEx envelopes and cut them apart to get a clean white
sheet of the 'fiberglass' material. Print on that. Then 'super dry' it
with a hair dryer. Finally, spray it with artist fixative... Some people
say plain old hair spray works too, but I haven't tried it.
Oh, nothing is perfect. But it's better than nothing.
Then again, just get a color laser printer...
Mike
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Subject: RE: APRS software for SAR
From: "Herb Gerhardt" <hgerhardt@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:59:33 -0700
X-Message-Number: 64
Ok, I have read the numerous responses to this question and I need to add
my 2 cents worth.
Keep in mind I am a friend of Curt's and hope he will not vent his hunting
frustrations at me and put an arrow between my ribs. Hi, hi,,,,, Curt
know my views and is working on trying to satisfy my simplistic views when
he gets there I will shout it from the highest mountains in Western
Washington. He has some great visions which I do hope will become reality
in the near future.
I have been working on the integration of APRS into local SAR activities
for over 6 years now. No, I have not totally succeeded but am still
heading in the right direction.
My inputs are that the most important thing is to pick a platform for the
entire county that you are involved in, in SAR activities. The main
problem is having enough or should I say any other qualified APRS
operators! You have to pick a platform that not only you can understand
and use but a platform that you can teach to others who are not very
computer literate. The KISS principal. You can not succeed if you do it
all by yourself.
That is the problem I am running into and have not been able to overcome
yet. When someone tells me they want to learn APRS and then tells me they
don't know how to even turn on a computer, all you can do is cringe. You
don't want to turn them off, but you can't teach them computer usage from
ground zero! They need to have a basic understanding of computers first.
Then the APRS program must be simple to use to a "rock"! I think you are
getting the point. The majority of us are computer users and not
programmers. We need a platform that you can teach someone with very
limited computer knowledge in an hour or two.
I have spent several weeks with DOS, UI-View, WinAPRS and attempted Xastir
via Cygwin. No, I never succeeded getting Cygwin to execute properly where
it would recognize the Xastir codes. I tried but failed. Curt is still
working on me, for some reason he has not yet given up on a dummy like me.
Must be because we are both hunters, hi, hi.... DOS was also too
confusing for me (I never learned to run a DOS computer) and the DOS maps
just did not do it for SAR usage. UI-View is really neat but it too has
some drawbacks in that the features change on a weekly if not daily basis.
Then when I ran my Norton Works maintenance on my computer, UI-View never
ran again! I have been using WinAPRS for 6 years now and really like it.
As Doug K7IP told me when he suggested I use WinAPRS said: "What you see
is what you get!"
I still have not forgotten those words and they are still true. I am
proficient enough in WinAPRS I can get someone going on it over the air in
about 30 minutes but that does mean they have basic computer windows
skills. It is the platform I selected for Mason County, WA SAR use. Yes it
does have some short-comings like all the APRS platforms do. The biggest
problem is that it does not support local Topo maps. I have discussed this
issue with the Sproul's for years but so far they are not there yet. I
certainly hope they are still working on the use of Topo maps with WinAPRS.
To me, the easiest and best APRS platform for SAR is still WinAPRS but that
is Version 2.5.1 with Precision Maps 3.0 or 3.5, not the current version of
2.7.2. The main problem with the later versions is that the PM maps only
fill 2/3 of the screen which is not very impressive when you try to use
sensationalism in trying to impress local SAR and County Officials in
trying to get them to support your efforts. Yes, the Tiger Maps work but
are too memory intensive and therefore too slow. They are also not as
"pretty" as Precision Maps. I am not sure of where the Sproul's will be
heading in the future but so far, I believe it is still the simplest APRS
platform to use, teach and maintain on old hand-me-down computers that are
the only ones we are able to get for county DEM and SAR use. Also most
importantly, we need a platform that does not require to be maintained on
numerous county computers more than once a year. Yes, you need to consider
that if you have the program running on 3 or 4 computers for SAR use, you
will have to maintain each one of those computers periodically. Yes, that
can take as much time as using APRS during SAR activities.
Enough said. I better shut up before everyone hits the delete button or I
can feel Curt's arrow between my ribs.
Herb, KB7UVC
NW APRS Group, West Sound Coordinator
Our WEB Site: www.nwaprs.org
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