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ZL3AI > APRDIG 19.09.03 10:13l 216 Lines 7771 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: APRS software for SAR
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:30:d start over. Go look at ArcView's layer palette
and start from there. Maybe everyone else is just using Tigermaps or
something, but I have gigabytes of local map data and it's a pain to try to
display it in any meaningful way.
Please share your SAR software experiences... Xastir's my top choice for
now, but I'm always willing to listen to alternatives.
Thanks...
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: Email by APRS... problems?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:39:33 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 28
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Rochte, Robert wrote:
>and decided to send an email using HyperTerminal...
>but now every time I send a regular position packet out I keep receiving
>the same "EMail message delivered..." message back!
Because you are not acking that message, it is being saved for you
(assuming you have gone off line). Then in the future, anytime it hears
from you, then it tries again to deliver the message. This is called
then "retry-on-heard" algorithm...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:40:59 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Bruninga [mailto:bruninga@usna.edu]
>Posted At: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:30 AM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone
>contact this guy?
>
>Your statements advocating turning off all DIGI position packets and
>operating in the blind to me is counterproductive to any meaningful
>expectations for what APRS is there to do... ANd it it not the KISS
>approach, because it means you are depending on other functions in the
>heirarchy to keep your network working... and everyone informed..
Bob, I NEVER advocated turning off ALL digi position packets. And I
NEVER "drew a line in the sand". I did say that usage of APRS for
messaging over more than 2 hops in the DFW area is unreliable at best
and no EC in our area is even considering use of APRS for that purpose.
As I said before, we have better methods and means of communications to
accomplish the goal of method delivery over a long distance than
single-frequency UI AX.25.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: Re: APRS software for SAR
From: "Curt Mills, WEsigner would realize
the DIGI's 0.0016 load on the network is orders of magnitude more valuable
to RETAIN the advantages enumerated above, and not throw all that away to
save the 0.0012 of channel capacity!
The problem is the other .9984 of the OTHEons for what APRS is there to do...
>
>Bob, I NEVER advocated turning off ALL digi position packets.... I did
>say that usage of APRS for messaging over more than 2 hops in the DFW
>area is unreliable at best and no EC in our area is even considering use
>of APRS for that purpose....
I think then we are in total agreement!
And just to clarify, here is the current recommendation for APRS
digipeaters in typical well connected areas with reasonable numbers of
users:
FUNDAMENTAL: 1) Digis send a local DIRECT posit once every 10 mins
TYPICAL: 2) Digis should send a WIDE posit once every 30 mins or so
DEBATABLE: 3) Digis may send a W2-2 posit once every 3 hours or so
The NETWORK loads of these stanadards are miniscule and not worth all
this haggling! Especially compared to their value to users... In areas
where every digi can hear at least 3 others here are the loads:
1) 10 min local packet = 0.0016 channel load
2) 30 min WIDE = 0.0016 channel load
3) 3 hour WIDE3-3 = 0.0016 channel load
Total network load for reliable Network self identification = 0.005
This leaves the other .995 of channel capacity available for the user
load. (and that is where the PATH abuse is...)
Now if local sysops want to start hacking away at these APRS network
infrastrucutre standards, then I suggest they can start with #3. Cut back
to W2-2 every 3 hours and they can save 0.0012 channel capacity (not a
significant change at all). Or eliminate it entirely so that their users
have no clue what the network is beyond their 2 hop limit and save another
0.0016.
But never give up on #1. That is fundamental to APRS.
If sysops are so draconian that they are nitpicking these teeny-weeney,
miniscule loads on the system instead of attacking the other 99% of the
problem in their local area, then they are missguided and working
counterproductively....
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Nodes versus DIGI's
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:52:19 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 35
The point that someone was trying to make is that to communicate well, we
must use common terminology. For anyone who has been in AX.25 ham
radio packet:
"NODE" means a level-4 AX.25 element that does link-by-link acknowledgment
and was the thing that saved PACKET from the disasters of long
end-to-end and unreliable paths. It handles CONNECTED packets very
well.
"DIGI" is totally different. It is used in unconnected mode like APRS.
It serves UI packets.
Now, to these fundamental definitions, as we are working towards improving
the routing in our "digi" based network, we are beginnning to use the
terms DUMB DIGI and SMART-DIGI. But we should not use the term "node"
in APRS because it just confuses most everyone who knows of NODES as a
totally different animal.
Hope this clarifies...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Travel Report on use of "WIDE" - IGATE access
From: Gonzales Andy <agonzales@arc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:09:13 -0700
X-Message-Number: 36
On my outbound trip from Sunnyvale to San Luis Obispo on Saturday,
11:38:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 37
Apparently at the south end of my trip, I was being picked up by
KD6DSI-5 then the IGATE at N1VG.
KG6RWO-1
--
Andy Gonzales
NASA / Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000
Bldg. N-244, Rm. 240
MS 244ad choice of paths. When in fact, it
just undermines the integrity of the APRS system.
THe better fix is to educate and teach users the proper paths.
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: Travel Report on use of "WIDE" - IGATE access
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:13:46 -0700
X-Message-Number: 40
Well, it's good to know my IGATE was up - I was just looking at it because
the logging got screwed up and made it look like it'd been down since
Sunday.
Yeah, once you get past the Cuesta Grade going north, you're probably going
to need another hop to get to me. I think N6TBQ used to cover the north end
of that stretch, but I'm not seeing him (except his van) on my map right
now. Does anyone know if that IGATE has gone offline, and if so, is there
an active IGATE anywhere between Salinas and San Francisco?
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Jack R. Smith" <jack.smith2@us.army.mil>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:16:58 -0500
X-Message-Number: 41
Amen!!! If you can't see (hear) them, then they're not a resource you can
contact and put to use.
de KE4LWT Jack
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