| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 17.09.03 22:37l 240 Lines 9724 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1926-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 15, 3/10
Path: DB0FHN<DB0THA<DB0ERF<DB0FBB<DB0GOS<ON0AR<ON0AR<WB0TAX<N1UAN<ZL2BAU<
ZL3VML
Sent: 030917/1343Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:8561 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1926-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:52:00 -0700
X-Message-Number: 23
This reminds me of something I've been meaning to bring up. The local SAR
team is really interested in getting equipped for APRS and setting up some
RELAY digis for better backcountry coverage, in addition to the existing
WIDEs. For actual local tactical use (like the network was designed for)
I'd like to be able to command the digis under our control to refuse
external traffic from beyond a certain range during SAR operations. I think
digi_ned can do this - maybe uidigi as well? How possible/practical is it
to control these remotely?
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:54:02 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 24
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Dennis Hudson wrote:
>Excellent, could someone explain why a digi id would ever need any
>path. If you can't hear or hit the digi directly why would you care
>about it.
Becuase knowledge is power and knowing what is going on will best serve
someone that needs to provide on-the-spot communications to suit emergent
needs.
>I thought APRS was supposed to be a come as you are mode and
>knowledge about the network was unecessary.
Yes, to get one packet out in general, but APRS is desgned for the
EMERGENCY that comes-as-it-is and then one needs to know all he can about
what is the best way from point A to B. And there is no time nor is their
bandwidth to do allkinds of pinging and path determination...
>you are in the country? It's abusive to the network no matter where you
>live. In the old days it was nice to see some activity, but now we
>can't support the valid users because rampant digi ids are taking up
>all the time slots.
>
>If there is a reason for it I'll think about backing off. Until then
>I'm getting frustrated because we can't use our own network I've paid
>for an sweated to put up because distant stations are attacking our
>network, DOS attacks.
Agreed. We must fix things. The rule for a digi is "Local every 10, One
WIDE every 30 minutes. Lets say one WIDE3-3 every 3 hours."?
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RELAYn-n?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:06:04 -0700
X-Message-Number: 25
aprs: fm KE6KOU-1 to BEACON via K6TZ-10* WIDE3 RELAY3-3 ctl UI pid=F0(Text)
len 43
0000 ke6kou standalone tracker; ke6kou@juno.com.
Does that actually do anything? And why the heck would you want to bounce
off multiple relays rather than RELAY to a WIDE?
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: RELAYn-n?
From: Robbie <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:35:47 -0500
X-Message-Number: 26
Since when does RELAY3-3 anywhere in the route do anything?
I would consider the generator of the packet very new and unaware and
would also contact him direct and offer assistance...
Robbie, wa9inf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: RELAYn-n?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:41:57 -0700
X-Message-Number: 27
That's the plan, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some new
development I wasn't aware of. =]
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robbie" <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
To: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Cc: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [aprssig] RELAYn-n?
>Since when does RELAY3-3 anywhere in the route do anything?
>
>I would consider the generator of the packet very new and unaware and
>would also contact him direct and offer assistance...
>
>Robbie, wa9inf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: APRS and Police
From: "Jim Reynolds" <jreynolds@mail.ci.midland.tx.us>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:7:14
X-Message-Number: 28
I am a police lieutenant in a Texas city of around 100,000 pop. (Midland).
I recently demonstrated APRS at the police station for my Chief and Deputy
Chief. Midland has a good bit of APRS activity, and the Chief was
impressed with its capability. We are considering vehicle location
technology and resource tracking at our department. Is anyone familiar
with any law enforcement agency or governmental agency currently using APRS
technology in its day-to-day operations? If so, I would like to contact
them, so a contact name and phone number would be good also. Thanks, Jim,
KK5MV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:20:50 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Bruninga [mailto:bruninga@usna.edu]
>Posted At: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:03 PM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone
>contact this guy?
>
>Agreed. We must fix things. The rule for a digi is "Local
>every 10, One
>WIDE every 30 minutes. Lets say one WIDE3-3 every 3 hours."?
Keep WIDE3-3 in your area, Bob. WIDE3-3 is severe overkill in here and
is actively discouraged for use by ANY station in this area.
You have continually stated that APRS is a tactical protocol. I don't
see how trying to get a digi's beacon (fixed station of local interest
only) to cover hundreds of miles is being tactical. Why does someone in
San Antonio need to see stations in DFW via RF (or vice versa)? 144.39
in the DFW area is already running saturated most of the time and much
of the traffic is from stations over 100 miles away. In an "EMERGENCY",
the last thing we will want are stations from outside the area QRM'ing
our local operations. You are right, knowledge is power, but I don't
think that means broadcasting to stations hundreds of miles away via a
protocol that was never designed to do that reliably.
We also encourage people to set fixed stations at 20 minute beacon
rates. Why? Because that keeps inside of the 30 minute window some
software have for history yet keeps overall QRM at a minimum. Why does
a visitor, etc. need to know the callsign of a nearby digi (takes them
running some sort of software to realize what is going on as the
TinyTrackers and Kenwood radios don't show that info in paths, anyway)?
If the nearby digi is repeating RELAY and WIDE (WIDEn-n), isn't that all
they need or want to know? I understand that when APRS is not readily
supported in area, people like to see some activity. But when it is
heavily supported, such as here, I think people need to revisit their
beacon rates and paths to be both a good neighbor and to allow APRS to
be used for what it does well: tactical communications.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:58:58 -0700
X-Message-Number: 30
>Keep WIDE3-3 in your area, Bob. WIDE3-3 is severe overkill in here and
>is actively discouraged for use by ANY station in this area.
This is exactly the kind of approach that makes the overall system less
usable. How the heck am I suppose to know what setting to use in each
different area when the people building the system can't even agree?
I firmly believe this routing and control simply has to be taken up a
level or two and controlled properly. When I plug my laptop in to a
Ethernet network, I'm given an address, a gateway, and I'm off and
running. APRS should be almost that simple. I should be able to set up
my callsign and station information, turn the thing on, and the router
on the hilltop should know how many hops to send me to cover the RF area
and how many hops to repeat me to get to an IGATE.
>We also encourage people to set fixed stations at 20 minute beacon
>rates. Why? Because that keeps inside of the 30 minute window some
>software have for history yet keeps overall QRM at a minimum.
Wouldn't it be smarter to fix the 'some software' rather than alter the
timing parameters for the network? I understood that 30 minutes was the
correct interval for fixed stations?
>But when it is
>heavily supported, such as here, I think people need to revisit their
>beacon rates and paths to be both a good neighbor and to allow APRS to
>be used for what it does well: tactical communications.
Therein is the problem. The optimum for your area may be different from
someone elses, and you expect every user entering your area to change
their settings, you are going to be constantly disappointed. I think
there is a much greater chance of success if we can make the routers on
the hilltops smarter. They could adjust path based on traffic, they
could alter paths that were set wrong, etc. Someone drifting in to a
heavy traffic area set at wide3-3 would get chopped down to wide if that
was what was needed.
As for beacon rates, that is a slightly different issue. Personally it
seems logical to me to beacon when notable change in speed and/or course
are made. Else there should be a fixed timer based on your station.
When I'm on the road I beacon with the smartbeacon type of algorithm,
when I stop and shut the rig off it drops to once every 30 minutes.
73
Daron N7HQR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
