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ZL3AI > APRDIG 17.09.03 22:36l 243 Lines 9424 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 15, 6/10
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Cygwin
From: "Bill Vodall - WA7NWP" <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:18:03 -0700
X-Message-Number: 44
>>Ihave tried to get Xastir running but so far I have been completely
>>unsuccessful in getting Cygwin to work on either my Win98 or Win2K systems.
After having some good success with Cygwin, I've been butting heads with it
for the past few days. I'm learning some tricks and hopefully I'll have
more to contribute soon when I once again get it compiling and running.
The concept is great and having the Unix/X tools available on a Windows box
is more then great.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: Cygwin
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 45
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Bill Vodall - WA7NWP wrote:
>After having some good success with Cygwin, I've been butting heads with
>it for the past few days. I'm learning some tricks and hopefully I'll have
more>to contribute soon when I once again get it compiling and running.
>
>The concept is great and having the Unix/X tools available
>on a Windows box is more then great.
Please consider contributing your insights to the Xastir project.
We'll get them integrated into the README.win32 file to help the
next people to come along.
Good seeing you at North Bend!
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:47:25 -0500
X-Message-Number: 46
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Bruninga [mailto:bruninga@usna.edu]
>Posted At: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:07 PM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone
>contact this guy?
>
>Agree completely with the statement "ANY" user station. But
>Inever said
>anything about that. My recommendaiton for WIDE3-3 was for the DIGI
>and ONLY ONCE EVERY 3 HOURS. These are our infrastructure.
Bob, a digi is a station. And I didn't say "user" station.
>We aren't talking "stations" we are talking DIGIS which are the
>basis of the whole network infrastructure. In a tactical real-time
>situation, we ENCOURAGE users to use directed paths to get their data
>where it has to go. In order to do that , they MUST know
>what part of the
>network is still working at that time. That is why DIGIS ID...
In a real emergency, APRS would be essentially useless beyond two hops with
the level of activity that would be seen (at least in this area). This is
regardless of whether someone uses directed paths or not. And, as stated
below, people aren't going to be messing around with their paths in an
emergency. You may encourage directed paths in your area, but because of
the high usage rate and the knowledge that we have much more important
things to do in an emergency, we encourage people to use short paths that
will be effective for a tactical situation. In this area, that means no
more than 2 hops. We encourage directed paths as a standard for fixed
operation, at least for the first hop. If the station sees that they are
no longer being digipeated, guess what: that digi is down! They then fall
back to trying either WIDE or RELAY depending on their location but they
aren't going to be spending the next 10-20 minutes trying to figure out
what path to use. After all, they do want to be active with the emergency
group and APRS is only a support tool. Voice communications is still the
primary tactical communications mode, at least in this area.
>recommendation was for
>DIGIS and it was ONE 3-3 packet every 3 hours. This is
I still stand by my statements that no one hundreds of miles away needs to
know about a station (digis included) here or vice versa. Even in a
connected network, we successfully proved during the 80's that relying on
more than a couple of hops was optimistic at best using single frequency
AX.25. With an unconnected protocol, it is even worse.
>how emergency nets work. Nets HAVE to know what assets are
>available and
>ON line in real time. It is not good practice to expect
>someone to wait
>30 minutes to see if the local digi is up..
I know the local digi is up if I am getting digipeated. I don't need to
see the digi beacon. And if there is a hole in coverage, it is pretty
obvious. So, what's the solution? Move in one or more portable RELAY
digis to fill the gap(s).
>Yes for the casual user. But under stress, we want ALL users
>to then look
>at their maps in detail and to CHOSE their paths in real time
>to get any
>given bit of data to the intended recepient using the most direct and
In an emergency, these things are exactly what won't happen. There are
far too many other things going on for a net control operator, a mobile
operator, or other support operator to be messing with paths. It will
be very obvious if there are holes in coverage.
>We agree completely. But digis should ID once every 10
>minutes locally.,
>once every 30 minutes (or so) via one hop. And beyond that,
>Isee value
>in once every 3 hours or so, sending a WIDE3-3.
I disagree as stated before; this is overkill.
>the power
>goes out, turn on your laptop in the dark connected to an HT
>on 144.39 and
>see how much you would love to see what digis are STILL ON
>THE AIR in real
>time (remember they lose power too!)
I won't be doing it that way. I will be firing up my Kenwood D7 and seeing
if my packets are getting digipeated. If not, then the local digi is down.
I don't need to hope to see a beacon from the digi to know whether the
local digipeater is up or down.
I am very familiar with emergency communications having been active in
RACES and ARES since the early seventies in tornado alley. One thing that
is very apparent from the emergencies that I have been involved with is the
fact that radio communications are critical but are expected to be set up
BEFORE the emergency occurs. Trying to modify paths, radio configurations,
etc. during emergency communications only detract from the usability of
amateur radio.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:16:36 -0700
X-Message-Number: 47
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this
guy?
>I'm logging all RF traffic I see now... I'm going to do some more analysis
>on who's taking up all the bandwidth. Just saw a MIC-E packet from a user
>in Canada... I don't think anyone here in central CA really cares where
he's
>at in BC.
>
>Scott
>N1VG
THANK YOU!!!!! This will be interesting. Make sure you log TRACE paths
too!
However, how are you going to do it? How are you going to see traffic
outside your local area?
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:18:55 -0700
X-Message-Number: 48
From: "Bob Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Cc: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this
guy?
>>I guess I would ask "Why?" What is achieved by having a digi beacon
>>with a path over a single WIDE? I am not saying there isn't some
>>reasoning behind it, I just don't understand what that reasoning might
>>be.
>
>The APRSdos DIGIS.TXT file recommends a local (direct) packet every 10
>minutes so that local users (or visitors, or whatever scenario develops)
>never have to wait long to be updated. Beyond that we figured a single
>WIDE hop once every 30 minutes or so, and then maybe a WIDE3-3 once every
>few hours just so that 24/7 stations would get an awareness of the network
>in adjacent areas.
>
>Anything more than something like that is just QRM.
>bob
Then how come the majority of Node owners do not understand this or comply
to this thinking?
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com list has MIC in it - huh ?
From: WA8LMF2@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:26:12 EDT
X-Message-Number: 49
In a message dated 9/15/2003 3:46:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hacker@tc.fluke.com writes:
>Click on the rev number next to symbols.dat to see the file. Right
>now it's revision 1.18.
All this link produces is some sort of posting from a message board and a
lot of binary gibberish. Is there a web page where these symbols in GIF or
JPG format are viewable directly?
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