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ZL3AI > APRDIG 17.09.03 21:29l 274 Lines 10484 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "Dennis Hudson, N2LBT" <n2lbt@n2lbt.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:36:54 -0400
X-Message-Number: 31
on 9/15/03 16:58, Daron J. Wilson at daron@wilson.org wrote:
>>Keep WIDE3-3 in your area, Bob. WIDE3-3 is severe overkill in here
>and
>>is actively discouraged for use by ANY station in this area.
>
>This is exactly the kind of approach that makes the overall system less
>usable. How the heck am I suppose to know what setting to use in each
>different area when the people building the system can't even agree?
I think this might be part of the problem. People setting up the digipeaters
are equating a digipeater's ID with it's coverage ability or it's users path
ability. What we were talking about here is the ID which has no bearing on
it's ability to retransmit client packets. I think Bob's WIDE3-3 would be
too much for us up here in New England, but I agree it should ID some path
other than local at some time interval. I'll buy the 30 minute WIDE and
maybe a WIDE2 every once and a while.
Of course Daron has a good point about the agreement. We are only now
beginning to see the effects of our complacency over the years. Recently I
asked a distant 2 way iGate to stop sending everything out RELAY,WIDE3-3 and
I was told, "I have been on APRS for years and this is the first time I have
had anyone complain"
We really have to nip this one now and the Digipeater owners and Elmers have
to put their flame retardant suits on and help lead the charge.
Dennis, N2LBT
BTW do we have any bilingual French Candians here? We are getting clobbered
by a few stations over 250 miles away running RELAY,WIDE6 and the like. I'd
like to email them but it would take me a day just to compose an email and
it would probably sound pretty silly. Online translators don't do so well
with technical documents.
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Subject: Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone contact this guy?
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:40:57 -0500
X-Message-Number: 32
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Daron J. Wilson [mailto:daron@wilson.org]
>Posted At: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:06 PM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Abusive Digi id paths Was: Can someone
>contact this guy?
>
>This is exactly the kind of approach that makes the overall
>system less
>usable. How the heck am I suppose to know what setting to use in each
>different area when the people building the system can't even agree?
And that is exactly what I was pointing out. Just because WIDE3-3 works
for where Bob is, doesn't mean it is universally accepted or encouraged.
>running. APRS should be almost that simple. I should be
Hence our recommendations for local mobiles to use RELAY,WIDE or
RELAY,WIDE2-2 if they mostly drive outside of the area. I realize that
southern California does not support RELAY, but for the south central
US, this provides sufficient coverage where there is digi coverage.
>Wouldn't it be smarter to fix the 'some software' rather than
>alter the
>timing parameters for the network? I understood that 30
>minutes was the
>correct interval for fixed stations?
Bob's statement was 10 minutes for digis. Weather stations beacon more
often than 30 minutes. The problem with 30 minutes is both a problem
with history levels in some software and collisions (may not be seen for
an hour or more). Moving it up to 20 minutes has seemed to improve the
likelihood that a posit will be seen at least once within an hour while
not noticeably increasing QRM (if the paths are kept short, of course).
>someone elses, and you expect every user entering your area to change
>their settings, you are going to be constantly disappointed. I think
Not at all and I definitely did not say or imply that. I do hope that
those that live in the area will operate as good neighbors. And when I
visit other areas of the country and the world for any extended period
of time, I watch the packet flow to try and determine what type of
operation is being a good neighbor there.
>there is a much greater chance of success if we can make the
>routers on
>the hilltops smarter. They could adjust path based on traffic, they
No disagreement from me there. However, based on the equipment being
used, time to invest, money to invest, etc., I do not hold out a lot of
hope for "smart" digis to become common place anytime soon in this area.
Especially since this part of APRS (path trimming) is still an area of
contention and implementations are still in their infancy.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: RE: APRS and Police
From: "Bill Diaz" <william.diaz@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:37:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 33
Jim
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bounce-aprssig-28856@lists.tapr.org
>[mailto:bounce-aprssig-28856@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reynolds
>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 15:00
>To: TAPR APRS Special Interest Group
>Subject: [aprssig] APRS and Police
>
SNIP
>We are considering vehicle location
>technology and resource tracking at our department. Is anyone
>familiar with any law enforcement agency or governmental
>agency currently using APRS technology in its day-to-day
operations? If so, I would like to contact them, so a
>contact name and phone number would be good also.
>Thanks, Jim,
>KK5MV.
I would be surprised to learn that any law enforcement agency your size
used APRS for primary vehicle tracking.
Commerical Automatic Vehicle Location systems generally provide secure
communications and industry specific capabilites that cannot easily be
implemented within APRS. There are AVL systems designed specifically for
use via trunked radio systems as well.
You may want to try a web search. A Google search for AVL "Law
Enforcement" returned 3840 hits. AVL "Public Safety" returned 5770 hits.
Bill KC9XG
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Subject: Re: RELAYn-n?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:59:59 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 34
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Scott Miller wrote:
>aprs: fm KE6KOU-1 to BEACON via K6TZ-10* WIDE3 RELAY3-3 ctl UI pid=F0(Text)
>len 43
>0000 ke6kou standalone tracker; ke6kou@juno.com.
>
>Does that actually do anything? And why the heck would you want to bounce
>off multiple relays rather than RELAY to a WIDE?
Certainly Everyone must know that RELAY past the first hop is VERBOTEN.
But since nothing responds to RELAYn-N its not doing any damage except
demonstrating the lack of understanding by the sender...
I wish ALL author software caught such paths when the sender enters them
and gives the corrective feedback then. Unless authors include this
guidance in all software, then we will never get everyone trained...
Bob
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Subject: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com list has MIC in it - huh ?
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 35
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 WA8LMF2@aol.com wrote:
>According to the protocol reference, only UI-View is currently assigning the
>correct symbols to every code letter in both the primary and secondary sets.
Xastir should be very close to being correct, including the APRS
errata symbols on Bob Bruninga's web pages.
Xastir also uses 20x20 icons.
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: APRS symbol updates WAS: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:09:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 36
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 WA8LMF2@aol.com wrote:
>WMF (oops Windows-centric... don't know if other platforms support it)
*nix systems don't, other than some image viewers/editors.
>PFB - Postscript font format
Xastir may support Postscript on some platforms.
>TTF - True type font format -- (Windows centric but usable on some other
>platforms)
>[Note: The font formats are VERY scalable but only support one color
>against a transparent background; i.e. the normal properties of text. ]
Xastir may support TrueType format on some platforms.
>SHP - ESRI shape file (high end GIS apps support it on several platforms but
>does anything else?)
Xastir supports Shape files.
>DXF - Autocad exchange format (Is it usable on 'nix systems or Macs?)
Only through scripts that convert it to something else.
>AI - Adobe Ilustrator (Definitely works on both Windows PCs and Macs but does
>anything on 'nix systems deal with it?)
Never heard of it.
>CDR - Corel Draw (The most widely used vector drawing app on Windows PCs and
>my personal favorite for importing/modifying/exporting vector images in other
>formats. Again highly Windows-centric although it is now available on the
>Mac. However most Mac partisans swear by Adobe Illustrator.
>VIS - Microsoft Visio (quick sketching and drawing app - part of recent
>versions of MS Office. Again Windows-only)
>Or do we create the effect of scalability by creating the same symbol bitmaps
>in several sizes, perhaps the now-standard 16x16 pixel version, Rodger's
>20x20 version and one at 24x24 pixels and let the app select the appropriate
>symbol at one of three sizes. I suspect this would be easier to include as an
>update to existing programs....
Another option would be to define a vector format that the apps
could parse directly and decide how to draw. It doesn't have to be
one of the formats you specified above.
Considering that may of the apps implement ESRI Shapefiles in order
to draw the NOAA weather alerts, that might be a good choice though.
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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