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De: Psk31 Digest <owner-psk31@aintel.bi.ehu.es>
Para: <psk31-digest@bipt106.bi.ehu.es>
Asunto: Psk31 Digest V1 #370
Fecha: sßbado 22 de abril de 2000 1:52
Psk31 Digest Saturday, April 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 370
In this issue:
Re: [psk31] PSK Frequencies
[psk31] PSK + Linear
RE: [psk31] PSK + Linear
[psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
[psk31] seeing if I can finally get on the list
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] seeing if I can finally get on the list
[psk31] New Subscriber
RE: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] New Subscriber
[psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
[psk31] Re: Psk and Amps, etc
Re: [psk31] PSK Frequencies
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Re: [psk31] Re: Psk and Amps, etc
See the end of the digest for information about psk31-digest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 07:20:04 -0400
From: Dale Coleman <kf4sir@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [psk31] PSK Frequencies
At 10:36 PM 4/20/00 PDT, you wrote:
>Okay, I'll take a stab at it:
>
>3.580
>7.070
>14.070
>21.070
>28.120
>
>No contacts on 3.580 for me yet.
>
>Jim KD4GR
Anybody on 30 meters?
Thanks,
Dale
- ----------------------cut------------
>Could someone be so kind as to list the primary PSK31 frequencies commonly
>used in each HF band. Thanks very much.
>
>
>Anthony L. Nunn - WB5RMR
>Omaha, NE
>wb5rmr@qsl.net
>
- --------------------cut-------------
- --
Dale Coleman
kf4sir@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~kf4sir/
(>8 6unp sI 86 smopuIM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:33:36 +0000
From: Egon =?iso-8859-1?Q?Z=FCrrer?= <egon.zuerrer@balcab.ch>
Subject: [psk31] PSK + Linear
Hello PSK users,
although the discussion on correct transceiver setting will certainly
continue, all experienced PSK users know that the level of power is
critical.
I remember only one instance in this reflector where the question of a
linear was mentioned. Seeing that the present period of excellent
propagation conditions will change again it is to be expected that one
might be tempted to use a linear. What influence on the quality of the
signal is to expected and do you have already practical experience?
Very 73
Egon (HB9EBB)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 11:38:16 -0400
From: "Richard B Drake" <rbdrake@erols.com>
Subject: RE: [psk31] PSK + Linear
I have just recently tried using a linear on PSK. What I am about
to say may not apply to all linears so for the record, my set up
is A Ten-Tec Omni VI Plus Exciter + A Hercules II solid state
linear rated for 600W max output. The linear requires less than
50W of drive for full rated output. For SSB and RTTY, Ten-Tec
recommends setting the RF drive level on the exciter until it just
produces full output on the amplifier and then setting the audio
drive level for normal ALC action. However, for PSK we don't want
any ALC action so I have taken the approach of setting the exciter
RF control to max and adjusting the PSK audio level to produce
whatever output level I want from the linear while the PSK signal
is idling. I found that I can run it all the way up to about 500W
output, still be well below the start of ALC action on the exciter
without hurting my IMD. I generally get IMD reports of between -26
and -38db with the linear on. This is slightly better than the
reports I get when running barefoot with the exciter set to
approximately 25 watts output at idle. However, to keep things
running nice and cool I rarely push it beyond 250 watts output and
the result has been excellent.
One comment though, most operators are running between 25 and 50
watts on PSK, so calling CQ with 250 watts will often get you
replies from signals you can't copy, so one could say, what's the
point of that?
- ---
73, Rich - W3ZJ
w3jz@arrl.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:21:52 -0500
From: Bill <jobes@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
I am intrigued by the recent discussion on using linears and PSK31.
The beauty of the mode is one doesn't need a 300-megaton cannnon to have
a QSO.
73,
Bill W3WJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:33:09 -0400
From: "Fred Decker" <fdecker@csi.com>
Subject: [psk31] seeing if I can finally get on the list
all right, I re-subscribed, let's see if anyone can see my mails now
fred
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:13:53 -0500
From: fkamp <fkamp@home.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Ditto,
I have worked stations on PSK that were using as little as 5
watts to a dipole. I have also used my linear on PSK. Just
because an amplifier claims to be linear does not mean that
it is linear under all possible conditions. This is
particularly true if the amp has more than just an on/off
switch and the operator is an avid knob twister.
I personnally think that the best solution is to run
barefoot and use a beam. A good beam.
Frank Kamp
K5DKZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:10:48 -0500
From: "Dan W. Dooley" <dandooley@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] seeing if I can finally get on the list
Loud and clear to Bedford, TX, Fred.....
Dan W. Dooley WB5TKA Bedford, Texas EM12ku
e-mail to: dandooley@pipeline.com
May Goddes love blest ye alle
SOC#198
"Ancient Pistol, I do partly understand your meaning."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:39:38 -0400
From: James Mahoney <jamesmahoney@juno.com>
Subject: [psk31] New Subscriber
Greetings to the group.
After reading the article on PSK31 in the current issue of QST I am even
more fired up about amateur radio than I was before. I am currently a
Technician who has passed my General theory but still need the code.
With the promise of using PSK31 as a reward I am studying up to pass code
the next time around. After reading the current article, I dug through
my back issues of QST (the benefit of never throwing anything out) to
read the original article in the May 1999 issue. That's how I found this
list.
I'm looking forward to absorbing all of your collected wisdom about this
operating mode so I will be ready to go as soon as the FCC posts my new
license status. This looks like the ticket to more fun in ham radio and
getting the kids involved as well.
73
Jim Mahoney
KB3BYU
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:51:27 -0400
From: "Richard B Drake" <rbdrake@erols.com>
Subject: RE: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Certainly, when the conditions are right, I have made
transatlantic contacts with stations running 750MW. But, can you
do that any day any time? Of course not. Some people live in areas
with antenna restrictions and are stuck with having to use an
indoor antenna. Do you think it's ok if these poor souls use a
little power to help overcome their disadvantage? In other words,
one size does not fit all and there are times and situations where
the use of a linear is an available and proper resource.
- ---
73, Rich - W3ZJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:32:28 -0500
From: fkamp <fkamp@home.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Yup, I agree....but.
Indoor antennas do not hear as well as outdoor antennas. It
does no good to shout when you are deaf even though that is
what normally happens.
Frank Kamp
K5DKZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:44:42 -0500
From: "Dan W. Dooley" <dandooley@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
"Best solution" is the key phrase. That's not always the same.
My opinion would be - and it's nothing more than my opinion - is that it
should never be necessary to use what we think of as "linears". Power over
what the barefoot radio is capable of. But that does not always mean we're
going to be successful with the 1 to 5 watt level either. It all depends on
operating and band conditions. I might during periods of low sun activity
have to return to the 40 - 50 watts I started with, rather than the
typically 3/4 watt now used. I suspect that to be sufficient to work
anything anyone else is working.
If this were SSB, for example, more than 100 watts might be needed at times.
I truly wonder about PSK31 though. Kinda like a couple of years ago and
further back when I and most others were running typically 100 watts on 17
meter phone. I did it mobile. A common comment was, "you really don't need
more power on this band." I agreed. Yet, on occasion someone would come on
with more power. An operating advantge to him? Not really. Seemed like a
waste.
Just my opinion guys. Nothing more.
Dan W. Dooley WB5TKA Bedford, Texas EM12ku
e-mail to: dandooley@pipeline.com
May Goddes love blest ye alle
SOC#198
"Ancient Pistol, I do partly understand your meaning."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:01:32 -0500
From: "hasan schiers" <schiers@netins.net>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
One thing to consider....
More than a few of us have discovered that our signals are even cleaner with
the amp (at a very modest power level) than without it. I can use 15 to 20w
drive for 200 out and be cleaner with the amp than without it (when I bring
my exciter up to about 50w).
No one approach fits all. There are very good reasons to run an amp and they
vary. The least of all reasons much of the time is that a bunch of extra
power is required...most often it isn't...but it also isn't the only reason
one would run an amp.
Further...calling cq I frequently run more power...then cut way back
depending on what signals are like.
I'd just like to avoid the "we shouldn't be using amps" generalization when,
in fact, there are cases where it is perfectly appropriate and desirable.
The mode is psk31, NOT QRP psk31. As in all cases, the minimum power to
produce good comms and minimal interference with others is what the regs
call for. Part of reducing interference may include making the signal as
clean as possible, even if it is more raw rf power.
73,
hasan schiers, N0AN
schiers@netins.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:10:40 EDT
From: Ke4yyddave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [psk31] New Subscriber
No need to wait. If you have a VHF or UHFall mode you can get on now. I
worked EL94 from EL79 this morning (400 plus nm miles) on 2 meters this
morning.
I would like to try this mode with others on the 6m,2m, or 70cm bands. Any
one for a schedule?
73 David KE4YYD
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:59:46 -0500
From: Robbie Robertson <mwrobertson@mediaone.net>
Subject: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Okay, MY 2 cents worth!
All it takes is a little common sense here with this
Amplifer discussion.. Look at your water fall with
maybe 5 conversations going on, and maybe two or three
CQ running and all this is in about 1 KHZ of bandwith..
Now, someone comes up and calls CQ with 300 watts (I
HAVE WITNESSED THIS ALREADY), from the west coast and
completely blanked my IC-751 from receiving ANY signals
til the 300 watt CQ finished. IMHO this can never be
justified on PSK31 for any reason. When it starts up
and we all start increasing power, kiss PSK31 goodbye
as we now know it. It will tben nothing more than CW..
Robbie
- --
- ----------------------------
Are we having fun yet?
73 - Robbie - WA9INF
******* --... ...-- *******
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:36:45 -0400
From: "Dick, N1RCT" <n1rct@megalink.net>
Subject: [psk31] Re: Psk and Amps, etc
I recently switched from a little IC 706/2 to a big IC 738 for PSK31 and,
unexpectedly, found
that the IMD degraded quite a bit, perhaps 10 dB at 100W, as I was embarrassed
to discover on the
air. This required going down to abt 40 watts to get back up to abt -25 dB IMD
(as others have
reported ), as monitored on a second rig and computer. (At 30W, the IMD peaks
at -29 dB).
Switching in the AL80B amp permitted about 30W IC 738 power and the IMD
improved to -29 dB at 300W
out of the amp. Turning off the amp kept the same -29 dB IMD, i.e. the amp was
not further
degrading the signal at this power level. All this is with a 8.3/470 ohm
attenuator out of the
sound card, which may not be optimum for this rig.
The sound card output looks completely clean on Spectrogram so I conclude
the IMD products are
being generated in the IC 738. I think the ARRL tests this in their lab
reports and possibly it
represents the best that the rig can do on PSK31.
Overall, an amp lets me increase power from 100W barefoot to 300W while
improving IMD from -15
to -29 dB with the IC 738. At 500W, it is still -25 dB, with the IC 738
exciting at 50W. A
loafing linear can often put out a better signal that a pressed barefoot rig.
Of course, I cut back
the power to way under 100W if the established contact permits.
More power can help make a lot more contacts *IF* you in a relatively low
noise level compared
to the other (lower power) station, as I typically am. It lets me "carry" a
QSO with a station
that could not otherwise work me, even though I use a high performance beam.
Yesterday, EL2RF
could just copy my CQ at 150W; I went to 300W, resulting in a new one on
digital for me. I am sure
he would not have called me at all if I were at 40W.
I do love the challenge of working a QRP, or simply low radiated power,
station and Physics
claims that I am the one with the tougher job. True QRP work requires QRP at
both ends (and I'm
getting pretty old). I completely respect those operating at 10W, possibly
with a vertical on the
balcony of their high noise apartment; and they are my favorite contacts on PSK
and RTTY. But we
would never have had the contact if I used the same setup.
Best wishes to all on PSK31 ( an inspired mode, not a theology ) and
congratulations to Peter
again for an outstanding accomplishment.
May your IMD always be green ... 73 de Dick
Dick Stevens, N1RCT n1rct@megalink.net
PO Box 1075, Wilton, ME 04294 USA (207) 645-4748
Your RTTY/PSK31 Website: http://www.megalink.net/~n1rct
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:33:19 -0500
From: "Anthony L. Nunn" <nunn@tconl.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] PSK Frequencies
Thanks for the info.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Goldsberry" <kd4gr@hotmail.com>
To: <nunn@tconl.com>; <psk31@bipt106.bi.ehu.es>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [psk31] PSK Frequencies
> Okay, I'll take a stab at it:
>
> 3.580
> 7.070
> 14.070
> 21.070
> 28.120
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:07:03 -0400
From: "Bob Lewis" <aa4pb@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
Soapbox on: :-)
This is exactly the reason that I personally do not like the concept
of DigiPan where we operate with wide open receiver IFs and tune in
signals with DSP at the audio level. It only works when all the
signals are nearly the same level. One strong signal wipes out the
receiver by activating the AGC. Get a strong ARQ or CW signal in your
passband and you're really out of luck. It's not only a matter of
power - propagation and location can do the same thing. You can get
wiped out by a station running 5 watts if he's located down the
street. I like to run narrow filters in the receiver in order to keep
signals other than the one I am working out of the high gain portion
of the receiver (the IF) and the AGC. I like DigiPan so I use it with
the narrow filters and keep it set to approx. 1000 Hz and coarse tune
with the rig. This is not new to PSK31, it has been an ongoing problem
with the other digital modes as well - people using a 2.8 Khz wide
receiver IF to pass a pactor or rtty signal that's only 500 Hz wide
and then becoming upset when they get QRMed by someone a couple of Khz
away. I think we're throwing out one of the major benefits of PSK31 by
not attempting to use IF filters that match the mode's bandwidth.
Soapbox off:
> All it takes is a little common sense here with this
> Amplifer discussion.. Look at your water fall with
> maybe 5 conversations going on, and maybe two or three
> CQ running and all this is in about 1 KHZ of bandwith..
> Now, someone comes up and calls CQ with 300 watts (I
> HAVE WITNESSED THIS ALREADY), from the west coast and
> completely blanked my IC-751 from receiving ANY signals
> til the 300 watt CQ finished. IMHO this can never be
> justified on PSK31 for any reason.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:36:14 -0600
From: Robert R Miner <bminer3@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
It doesn't have to be "either/or." I love using DigiPan's wide spectrum,
without a filter, ordinarily. But, when a strong signal comes on and
lowers the gain too much on the signal I'm working, it's very easy to
switch in an IF filter to get rid of the interfering station.
Bob Miner, K5JPB
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:41:59 -0500
From: "Marcus C. Leatham" <leatham@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [psk31] WHY Use a Linear?
...This could happen because of ANY strong signal
coming on the air, not just because the chap was
using a linear! Future advances in receiver design
(the IC-756 is a good example) are putting filtering
in better places and maybe will prevent this type of
de-sensing. It's really a RECEIVER problem and
not a LINEAR problem!
Marcus.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:42:58 -0400
From: Harvey Fisher <harvee1@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [psk31] Re: Psk and Amps, etc
I firmly believe that all the engineering and electronic principles aside,
we are losing site of what I understand to be the main premise of PSK, HELL,
ETC.
"USE OF MINIMAL BAND WIDTH".
Let's think of that.
A good IMD reading is worthless if you are occupying 20, 300, 600 hz. of
space. There stations out there doing just that.
If this is your goal good luck. It is not one of mine.
I am certain there are many many more out there who feel the same way. I
would like to hear from them. After all, where is the thrill of living on a
mountain with a 250 foot tower, an all band log periodic and working
anyone. What is the sense of accomplishment? Where is the challenge?
73
Harvey-K2CJP
P.S.
At the rate it is going the DIGI funeral will be here soon.
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------------------------------
End of Psk31 Digest V1 #370
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