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PA2AGA > HDDIG 24.09.00 01:13l 188 Lines 7124 Bytes #999 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_2000_258C
Read: DC1TMA GUEST
Subj: HamDigitalDigest 2000/258C
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Sent: 000923/2109Z @:PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU #:17311 [Den Haag] FBB $:HD_2000_258C
From: PA2AGA@PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 00 19:42:25 MET
Message-Id: <hd_2000_258C>
From: pa2aga@pe1mvx.ampr.org
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga.ampr.org
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
"Steve Sampson" <S.Sampson@radio-link.net> wrote in message
news:ssihqsnkalma93@corp.supernews.com...
> > The usual tcp/ip bigot's idea: if your hosts are not directly on
> > the internet, then they are not part of net 44. Total nonesense.
>
> It wasn't mean't to be a political or religious suggestion, or even
> one to encite self-oscillation in a BBS club. It was only mean't
> to be a suggestion, that if you want to set up a radio IP network,
> and your coordinator is dead, missing, or can't be bothered, that
> you might pick some other number, and develop your interest.
This would make it very hard to connect your new host into the
existing tcp/ip network. What is the reason to *not* use an address
in the local subnet?
> > How do you do this migration if you cannot get a response from
> > the appropriate address coordinator? It is a totally useless suggestion.
The point, Steve, is a simple one. For some subnets, there is not
a coordinator. If nobody tells Brian about this, there never will be
a coordinator for that subnet. So you might as well go directly to
Brian and get things fixed.
> You are not going to find the address coordinator via your IP radio
> station.
That's for sure! The coordinators for my local subnet has not been on ham
radio digital modes for at least 11 years, if ever. The coordinator
for one of the adjacent subnets went off air 7 ot 8 years ago. He is
a bit hard to reach since his phone is unlisted. You have to write him
a letter, and he might answer it ... or might not. Some folks that should
be in that subnet have given up and gotten addresses in an
adjacent subnet instead.
> You don't have an IP station until you find the coordinator.
Huh?
> Meanwhile, rather than wringing your hands on what to do, the most
> obvious thing to do (after a lengthy missing-persons report on the
> coordinator) is to just have fun.
To whom would you send that missing persons report?
Let me guess: to Brian, as I sugested in my response that caused
all the flames. Duh ...
> > > Lots of private networks use network 10.
> >
> > The discussion was not about private networks, but about the
> > ham radio tcp/ip network aka net 44. Lot's of private networks
> > also use subnet 192.168. Has nothing to do with anything.
>
> I don't want to relive ancient history, but go back to the day that
> the class A resource was given, and ask yourself if your not
> being just a little bit stupid in continuing to use it. A lot has
> occurred in IP networking since those long days ago.
Exactly the point. Someone would be stupid to use anything other
than a net 44 address over ham radio. Nobody could talk to them.
A related issue is the state of the assignments. There are assignments
to folks who have died, have moved into different subnets, have
changed callsigns, etc. There appears to be no mechanism to keep
the assignements anywhere near close to reality.
Yet another issue is how to percolate radio network routings into
the internet. There does not seem to be any move toward a
solution of this "interesting" problem.
Example: you cannot ping i386.w0rli.ampr.org from anywhere on
the internet, even though there are (at least) three different ways
to reach that (radio only) host from the internet over ham radio
network links. The tcp/ip community has simply not found any way
to solve this particular problem.
These are things that need to be fixed, to make tcp/ip a more
viable option for ham radio.
--
... Hank
http://horedson.home.att.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:59:31 GMT
From: horseshoestew@my-deja.com
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
In article <2wey5.1335$QI1.121340@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net> wrote:
> Yet another issue is how to percolate radio network routings into
> the internet. There does not seem to be any move toward a
> solution of this "interesting" problem.
Only because you are "out to lunch", and can't see the future. Of
course there are "moves" going on. Most of these folks are working at
places like Motorola and Qualcomm, etc.
> Example: you cannot ping i386.w0rli.ampr.org from anywhere on
> the internet, even though there are (at least) three different ways
> to reach that (radio only) host from the internet over ham radio
> network links. The tcp/ip community has simply not found any way
> to solve this particular problem.
Of course they could. The problem is - noboby gives a poop about
amateur radio applications, because of attitudes like yours - which
stifle the obvious Internet backbone solutions. Commercial Internet-
backboned RF networks are the future.
> These are things that need to be fixed, to make tcp/ip a more
> viable option for ham radio.
You got that right. Nobody is going to mess around with ham radio
solutions, when they can make millions of dollars doing the same thing
with commercial applications.
> ... Hank
------- Stewart - N0MHS --------
Wireless High-Speed Networking and
Public Radio Services Information(MURS,FRS,GMRS,ARS,CB):
http://www.pubcel.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:09:06 GMT
From: nomail@rob.knoware.nl (Rob Janssen)
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
Hank Oredson <horedson@att.net> wrote:
>> You are not going to find the address coordinator via your IP radio
>> station.
>That's for sure! The coordinators for my local subnet has not been on ham
>radio digital modes for at least 11 years, if ever. The coordinator
>for one of the adjacent subnets went off air 7 ot 8 years ago. He is
>a bit hard to reach since his phone is unlisted. You have to write him
>a letter, and he might answer it ... or might not. Some folks that should
>be in that subnet have given up and gotten addresses in an
>adjacent subnet instead.
Of course it is a dull job to be a coordinator. I know it, I am one of
them myself. But with a couple of small scripts it is not that bad...
Just read the person's mail, add a line to the file, and let the script
to the rest.
Still not very rewarding, as you will get all the flak when people want
things that are not foreseen in the subnet assignment plan.
(suggesting them to write a better plan usually quiets them)
What I would find bad is when a person sits on his "coordinatorship" but
is unwilling to perform the task. I don't think that is the case there.
Probably there just isn't anybody who is willing to provide this service
in your area.
When that is a nuisance, just go do it yourself.
Rob
--
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org | WWW: http://www.knoware.nl/users/rob |
| AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU |
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
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