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PA2AGA > HDDIG 24.09.00 01:11l 197 Lines 7602 Bytes #999 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_2000_260B
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Subj: HamDigitalDigest 2000/260B
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Sent: 000923/2105Z @:PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU #:17307 [Den Haag] FBB $:HD_2000_260B
From: PA2AGA@PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 00 19:46:10 MET
Message-Id: <hd_2000_260B>
From: pa2aga@pe1mvx.ampr.org
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga.ampr.org
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
with all
the patents flying around, that amateur activity might establish
some prior art for some of the stupider ones. Like isn't there a patent that
basically covers any wireless device hooked to the internet?
Also, even the cell phone guys come up against expectations that wireless is
going to be easier to do than it really is. Because my understanding is that
something
like WOP or the systems that talk to the wireless Palms and things aren't
hugely far ahead in bandwidth of what ham radio connections are at. Radio
harder
than wires. Really.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:24:41 -0400
From: "ed_woodrick" <ed_woodrick@email.msn.com>
Subject: Compression et all
Charles,
I hate to say it, but you have a pathetic, defeatist attitude.
Amateur Radio has been known for years as creating and providing some of the
major advances in RF technology. Amateurs have been on the forefront of most
technological advances for many years. To say that we can't compete with the
commercial agencies is just ridiculous. Look at APRS, many commercial
entities are using the concepts that were pioneered in Amateur Radio to
create position measurement systems.
And we don't have access to equipment and laboratories? Bull!!! Most
laboratories are probably run by Amateur operators. Equipment? When we can't
build it, we've always found ways to acquire it. If nothing else, in the
surplus market.
I feel sorry of you who are staying in the analog world. Technology is
passing you by. In not too many years you will find most if not all
communications being conducted over digital modes. The FCC and the ARRL is
already starting to work with software definable radios. Extremely complex
communication protocols are already being implemented in $0.50 chips. Cell
phones are costing very few dollars to manufacturer. Commercial radios are
converting to digital. Nextel is putting the commercial two-way folks out of
business.
As to your desire that Amateur Radio be complete segregated from the
Internet.....
What a really STUPID concept. Anyone who knows how to create disaster
resistant networks knows that you want as many connections as available. And
it's also pretty stupid to separate ourselves from the rest of the world
when it's the rest of the world that we are trying to help. Where would
Amateur Radio be if we didn't do phone patches? Where would Amateur Radio be
if it didn't use power from the commercial mains?
It's a pretty impressive thing to see two field day operators talking to
each other during a disaster. Yep, two stations that can pass messages. But
to whom? You have to interface to the rest of the world. You can't create
islands.
To rely on the Internet completely is just as dumb, BUT, as you so
eloquently put it, sometimes we just can't compete with the dollars of big
business. And guess what, the dollars have created a really disaster
resistant network that we might be able to use to assist us in doing our
job. Remember that Arpanet/Internet was created as a disaster resistant
network with a lot of our tax dollars. Their is more routing redundancy in
the Internet then probably any other network, including the telephone
network.
"Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@swb.net> wrote in message
news:0ATy5.512$5n5.85642@nnrp1.sbc.net...
>
> "ed_woodrick" <ed_woodrick@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:e3okn#OJAHA.249@cpmsnbbsa09...
> >
> > snip<
> >
> > As some have been mentioning, our data transfer capabilities are
severely
> > limiting our move to the digital world.
>
> I suppose that depends on you mean by "moving to the digital world"...
>
>
> blah blah blah
>
>
>
> --
> 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
> n5pvl@swbell.net
> http://home.swbell.net/n5pvl/
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:20:10 -0400
From: "Bob Lewis" <rlewis@staffnet.com>
Subject: Compression et all
> Look at APRS, many commercial entities are using
> the concepts that were pioneered in Amateur Radio to
> create position measurement systems.
>
These concepts were not pioneered in Amateur Radio. First off, the
position measurement system (GPS) was developed by the Government.
Businesses and police departments have been transmitting position
information via radio for years. Before there was GPS they were doing
it with Loran C. Almost 20 years ago I was working on a project where
we transmitted Loran C positions back to a central dispatcher via a
VHF communications system and displayed the vehicle's position on a
computerized map. The only way it was related to Amateur Radio was
that we happened to have a couple of hams working there.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 04:20:44 GMT
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: Compression et all
"ed_woodrick" <ed_woodrick@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:uTsjzcQJAHA.327@cpmsnbbsa09...
> Charles,
>
> I hate to say it, but you have a pathetic, defeatist attitude.
Nonesense.
> Amateur Radio has been known for years as creating and providing some of the
> major advances in RF technology. Amateurs have been on the forefront of most
> technological advances for many years. To say that we can't compete with the
> commercial agencies is just ridiculous. Look at APRS, many commercial
> entities are using the concepts that were pioneered in Amateur Radio to
> create position measurement systems.
If you want a real example, look into the military use of automatically
configured cooperative networking. This is a spin-off of ham radio
networking. But we're talking 1986 here ... nothing new since.
> And we don't have access to equipment and laboratories? Bull!!! Most
> laboratories are probably run by Amateur operators. Equipment? When we can't
> build it, we've always found ways to acquire it. If nothing else, in the
> surplus market.
"surplus market" = "old technology".
> I feel sorry of you who are staying in the analog world. Technology is
> passing you by. In not too many years you will find most if not all
> communications being conducted over digital modes. The FCC and the ARRL is
> already starting to work with software definable radios. Extremely complex
> communication protocols are already being implemented in $0.50 chips. Cell
> phones are costing very few dollars to manufacturer. Commercial radios are
> converting to digital. Nextel is putting the commercial two-way folks out of
> business.
You just made Charles' point.
> As to your desire that Amateur Radio be complete segregated from the
> Internet.....
Charles did not say that, any more than I have.
> What a really STUPID concept.
To have a radio based network? Huh?
> Anyone who knows how to create disaster
> resistant networks knows that you want as many connections as available. And
> it's also pretty stupid to separate ourselves from the rest of the world
> when it's the rest of the world that we are trying to help. Where would
> Amateur Radio be if we didn't do phone patches? Where would Amateur Radio be
> if it didn't use power from the commercial mains?
Where would emergency communications be if we were always forced
to use nothing but commercial power?
> It's a pretty impressive thing to see two field day operators talking to
> each other during a disaster. Yep, two stations that can pass messages. But
> to whom? You have to interface to the rest of the world. You can't create
To be continued in digest: hd_2000_260C
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