| |
PA2AGA > HDDIG 25.09.99 04:10l 165 Lines 7610 Bytes #-9764 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_99_240F
Read: GUEST
Subj: HamDigitalDigest 99/240F
Path: DB0AAB<DB0PV<DB0MAK<DB0BOX<DB0ABH<DB0SRS<DB0AIS<DB0SIF<DB0HSK<PI8DRS<
PI8DAZ<PI8GCB<PI8WNO<PI8HGL<PE1NMB<EA7URC<PE0MAR<PI8VNW
Sent: 990924/2139Z @:PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU #:2313 [HvHolland] FBB7.00g $:HD_99_240
From: PA2AGA@PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Received: from pa2aga by pi1hvh with SMTP
id AA19794 ; Fri, 24 Sep 99 21:23:00 UTC
Received: from pa2aga by pa2aga (NET/Mac 2.3.67/7.5.3) with SMTP
id AA00015889 ; Fri, 24 Sep 99 21:09:52 MET
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 99 21:01:55 MET
Message-Id: <hd_99_240F>
From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/240F
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
both.)
Sounds like something for everybody. Choose and join!
- Brian
PS: I still haven't figured out what Charles wants.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:18:27 GMT
From: nomail@pe1chl.demon.nl (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In almost all places in the world other than North America, local telephone
>service is metered by the minute. This is certainly true all over Europe,
>Asia and Latin America. Now in the USA local telephone service has been
>available at a flat rate for all you can eat local service for 6 - 7
>decades. Since Theodore Vail of AT&T sold Congress on the AT&T monopoly.
>Thus in the USA we now enjoy a flat rate local telephone service at
>approximately $20 per month in all 50 States.
>We can call anywhere in our local cities (LATAs) and stay off hook on that
>connection for 24 hours per day 7 days per week and all we are charged is
>roughly $20 per month. Long distance of course is extra and charged by the
>minute, nowadays in the USA you can get long distance service for 5 - 10
>cents per minute anywhere in America.
In the Netherlands, we have 2 different rates: "local" (which is a much
larger area than what you would get for "local cities", it is usually
an area about 25km in diameter), and "long distance".
Long distance costs less that what you pay, but of course the distance
is a bit less as well as we have a smaller country. OTOH, we can call
to the US for the same rate as you pay for "long distance" service.
"local" is about a dollar an hour.
>So that . . . In the USA we can dial our local Internet access provider and
>connect to the Internet at approximately 50 kbps (V.90) for 24 hours per
>day, 7 days per week for only $40 per month! $20 local phone service plus
>$20 local Internet access service.
>Let me ask you Rob. . . . In comparison to the American pricing, of $40 per
>month, in the Netherlands how much does a 24 hour by 7 day 50 kbps Internet
>connection cost?
We would not do that via a dialup connection!
I can get cable Internet, at about 90 kbps when the company does its work
well (which it doesn't always do) for $28 per month all-in (no extra
charges for connect time).
Other cities have better cable Internet systems that perform better (more
like 1500kbps) but usually cost around $40/month.
Also, in my opinion an Internet provider cannot offer what is in fact
a leased line (a dedicated modem and a dedicated line) for each customer
for $20/month including traffic. So, you are counting on the fact that
other customers are paying for your usage. That is not very popular here,
because customers like to "get what they pay for" in this country.
So, when there would be a flat rate telephone service (there *was* such
a service until the late seventies!), a lot of people would be doing what
you describe, and the system would collapse because the provider would not
have enough lines and modems to service everyone, and would not be getting
the money to buy them. (providers are now successfully running a 10
customers/line ratio here, the cheap/free ones have an even higher ratio)
>I hope you feel that you can share this pricing with us all here, because I
>know what it costs and since I am a "Yank" I want to defer to you who are a
>citizen of the EC and a Netherlander. Tell us. . . how much?
As shown above, it looks like it will cost us less, when using cable
Internet.
>I believe that this artificially high governmentaly imposed cost/price alone
>in Europe distorts the hapbits of European amateur packet radio operators.
>Of course they still favor the use of amateur radio over the Internet.
Our license precludes us from making connections between amateur radio
networks and foreign networks. There has always been discussion about
using the Internet as a tunnel between amateur networks, but the license
does not specificially say that this is allowed as an exception.
The authorities here have a "laissez-faire" attitude (as you undoubtedly
know), so there are some stations that have setup gateways even though
it is not formally allowed.
Still, most of the network is operating via radio here. You see, the
hobby is amateur radio. Of course there are *a lot* more people on the
Internet than on amateur radio, probably there are even more amateurs
on Internet than on packet radio. But that is just a different hobby.
>But for how long will they do this after the prices reach world market
>prices? I maintain that you will see the same effects that we have seen
>here in America. The ham packet activity will wither!
What do you mean with world market prices? USA market prices?
The tendency here (over the last decade or so) is for the monthly fixed
rates to drop and the per-minute rates to rise. Also, the local and
long-distance rates are zoning in on eachother.
10 years ago we paid more than a dollar a minute to call the US, and
about 40 dollarcents an hour for local calls. Since then, local calls
have become more expensive and international calls have come down
dramatically. For the majority of customers this means the price has
gone up, as I rarely/never call internationally.
Many services now no longer have a monthly charge, but only a usage charge.
This started with pagers, then was introduced with mobile phones (many GSM
users don't pay a monthly charge, most others get "free call minutes" for
the equivalent of their monthly charge), now it has carried over to
Internet providers as well. There are now serveral Internet providers that
ask no montly payment, and get all their income from special kickback deals
with the phone companies. Such an arrangement would not be possible in the
USA, because there is no per-minute charge that the phone company can
partly transfer to the provider.
It might seem unattractive when you want to have a permanent connection,
but it certainly has opened up the Internet to everybody (contrary to
what others claim here). When you want to be on the Internet here,
you don't have to commit to monthly payments and you pay no more than
it would cost you to call a local FIDO BBS. Do I need to explain what
this means for BBS usage?
>We all must act now to save ham packet radio. Stop burying our heads in the
>sand like Charles Brabbam and other Type B's. It is folly and will decimate
>amateur packet radio.
>Please tell us Rob . . .
>Rob how much in the Netherlands for 24 x 7 Internet service? Please share
>that with us.
I hope you are not too disappointed now... things are not quit as you
think they are. We have several options for Internet connections, and
we can decide ourselves whether we want fixed rates or usage-based rates.
However, we have a fully automated telephone system since the early fifties
and that has not killed the radio hobby either. It is just a different
medium and a different hobby.
Rob
--
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org | WWWhome: http://www.pe1chl.demon.nl/ |
| AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU |
To be continued in digest: hd_99_240G
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
