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PA2AGA > HDDIG 25.09.99 04:10l 225 Lines 7579 Bytes #-9763 (0) @ EU
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Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/240E
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
takes up the "application challenge".
Thoughts, discussion?
Peter AB4BC
Rob Janssen <nomail@pe1chl.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:slrn7ukot6.43f.nomail@linux.pe1chl.ampr.org...
> Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Charles:
>
> >Charlie, wake up and follow the bucks $ $ $ .
>
> >To understand the European (Continental) situation all you have to do is
> >shop their Internet access rates. (OK, then just look at the prices
there
> >since , you really can't shop over there!) And, note the UK is different
> >having deregulated like us a few years ago. Thanks Margaret Thatcher!
>
> >Like most things in Continental Europe the Internet access rates are
> >extremely expensive (where you can get em).
>
> Who told you that?
> Monthly access fees vary between 0 and about US$ 15/month here, depending
> on what quality of service you want. Half of the country is on the
> Internet.
>
> Rob
> --
>
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
> | Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org | WWWhome: http://www.pe1chl.demon.nl/
|
> | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU
|
>
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:57:56 -0500
From: "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7sdbjl$cs4@dfw-ixnews13.ix.netcom.com...
> Charles:
>
> Your heart is in the right place, and I love you for it, but you are
wrong,
> wrong, wrong.
>
Maybe someday your thinking will catch up with your heart.
The only time I was really wrong was that time I thought I was wrong...
--
73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:55:52 -0500
From: "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7sdbjk$cs4@dfw-ixnews13.ix.netcom.com...
> Charles:
>
> Charlie, wake up and follow the bucks $ $ $ .
>
> To understand the European (Continental) situation all you have to do is
> shop their Internet access rates.
Again, the facts do not support your claim. I have traded e-mail with
roughly as many European hams as I have US hams during the last couple of
years. E-mail reflectors where I hang out are very often primarily populated
by European hams. -And I have looked over hundreds of European Ham-related
web sites as well, while looking around for info on FlexNet, XNet, and a few
other interests. There are TONS of European Ham-related web sites out there,
for those who bother to take a look.
So your assertion that European hams can't get or afford Internet access,
and your assertion that they would lose interest in Packet Radio if they had
it are simply not supported by the facts.
I do not doubt that there are places in Europe with much higher rates than I
pay here in north Texas, but it appears that the difference is not so steep
or so widespread as you claim. Maybe my view is skewed a bit by the fact
that most European hams I have E-mailed with were involved with FlexNet, and
without exception these people were very happy with their packet network,
enjoyed it regularly, and were excited by the things they were doing with
it - Despite the fact that every one of these hams had Internet access.
As in the "applications mantra", this LandLine-Lid rationalization has no
basis in reality. Someone told you something, then you went on to make
assumptions or maybe you just did the usual thing and just parroted the
"politically correct" LandLine Lid mantra with thinking about it or looking
into it at all... I simply discovered the truth of this matter by
communicating with European Hams via E-mail, searching through European
web-sites for info and participating in international Ham-related E-mail
reflectors that are primarily populated by European, not American Hams.
The amusing thing here is that I have learned most of what I know about
FlexNet from -- guess who ? -- those same European hams I mentioned earlier,
who had Internet access and were nonetheless vitally interested in Packet
Radio.
So you'll have to shelve the "European Internet Ghetto" rationalization
along with most of the other catchy mantras that you A type LandLine Lids
use as a substitute for observing the world around you objectively and
thinking about what you see.
Want to "follow the money"? See how much money is spent in the US on
low-speed packet gear as opposed to high-speed stuff.
No, I'm not advocating low-speed packet... What I'm saying is that "follow
the money" does not always lead you to good information.
I have literally NEVER seen a group who regularly used and parroted verbatim
"politically correct" catch-phrases as a substitute for rational thinking
that had anything going for them. I have recently debunked several of the
primary mantras your A type "thinking" so heavily depends on, and doubt it
would be difficult to do the same with the others. I can say this with some
confidence because I have never seen anyone bother to use such hokey tactics
who had the truth behind them.
I can also confidently forecast that most if not all of you will be too
stupid to take your thinking to that next logical step that debunks most if
not all of A type "thinking", and so become as asset to the amateur radio
community instead of a pimple on it's collective butt.
--
Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:13:48 -0500
From: "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Rob Janssen <nomail@pe1chl.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:slrn7ukot6.43f.nomail@linux.pe1chl.ampr.org...
> Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >Charlie, wake up and follow the bucks $ $ $ .
>
> >Like most things in Continental Europe the Internet access rates are
> >extremely expensive (where you can get em).
>
> Who told you that?
> Monthly access fees vary between 0 and about US$ 15/month here, depending
> on what quality of service you want. Half of the country is on the
> Internet.
Ha Ha Haw Hawr!
Thanks, Rob. One more "mantra" laid to rest.
The A types are rapidly running out of excuses now, and getting a bit
desperate.
--
73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: 23 Sep 1999 14:01:09 -0700
From: brian@karoshi.ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
So to sum up:
Gary maintains that a network may well not be worth doing unless it is
high performance.
Hank maintains that having a network that works at all is worth doing
even if it will never achieve high performance.
Since volunteers have limited time, each must choose between these two
exclusive options. (Goodness knows we have enough bandwidth to support
To be continued in digest: hd_99_240F
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