| |
PA2AGA > TCPDIG 26.11.96 07:52l 163 Lines 6942 Bytes #-10810 (0) @ EU
BID : TCP_96_247D
Read: DG7DAH GUEST
Subj: TCP-Group Digest 96/247D
Path: DB0AAB<DB0AHO<DB0KFB<DB0CZ<DB0LX<DB0RBS<DB0SAO<DB0NDR<PI8AWT<PI8JYL<
PI8SAT<PI8MBQ<PI8VNW
Sent: 961125/2015 45611@PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU
From: PA2AGA@PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU
To : TCPDIG@EU
Received: from pa2aga by pi1hvh with SMTP
id AA21366 ; Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:52:05 UTC
Received: from pa2aga by pa2aga (NET/Mac 2.3.62/7.1) with SMTP
id AA00000095 ; Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:46:31 MET
Received: from pa2aga-1 by pa2aga with SMTP
id AA00000028 ; Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:31:11 MET
Received: from pa2aga-1 by pa2aga-1 (NET/Mac 2.3.62/7.5.5) with SMTP
id AA00008583 ; Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:31:09 MET
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:21:07 MET
Message-Id: <tcp_96_247D>
From: pa2aga
To: tcp_broadcast@pa2aga-1
Subject: TCP-Group Digest 96/247D
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
>> routing, as do a lot of ISPs and other networks.
Yes, but in reading this, I begin to believe we've lost sight of a goal.
The goal of the AMPRNet has been to create as well-connected a network
as we can. That means well-connected internally - i.e., can packets
get from one place to another via amateur radio, as much as possible
without the use of telephone lines, internet, or the like.
The goal isn't to create nifty radio gateways so that local hams can use
them as a radio-based ISP to get on the Internet - the goal is to build
a network. In a very large sense, the internet connectivity we have is
more-or-less a side issue of the radio network research.
I'm still happy to operate the encapsulating router that keeps the
pieces of net 44 talking to each other, and I don't mind people using
it to get traffic from the rest of the internet to network 44.
But really, if what you want to do is become a ham radio ISP in your area
is get yourself a block of non-44 addresses, have them CIDR routed to the
core with your station as the gateway, and become a ham-internet provider.
I'm sure your ISP will oblige.
>I thought it was a legality issue not a technical one.
Management of your transmitter and the content of what it issues is
always your responsibility. You can't delegate it just because the
incoming connection had a source address on network 44.
I hope this clarifies some part of the issues.
- Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:33:47 GMT
From: brian@nothing.ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
Subject: Gateway from changing IP
>I'm trying to understand why traffic has to go through mirrorshades...
Historically, because of limitations of the early routing protocols,
there could only be one point of attachment between networks. If the
AMPRNet (network 44) is viewed as a monolithic network [which in the
absence of classless routing, is the only way it can be viewed], there
can only be the one connection point, and that is the system known as
'mirrorshades.ucsd.edu' or 'ampr.org'.
We divide network 44 up into smaller bits. It has recently become
possible to advertise (i.e., send routing info) to much of the internet
that a particular bit is reachable via a specific gateway.
For example, it would be possible to use non-Class-A routing to
advertise that instead of all of 44/8 going to San Diego, the piece of
net 44 that serves Los Angeles (44.16/18) is to be sent to the Los
Angeles gateway system, currently w6vio.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.37.26).
And the piece for San Diego goes to our gateway. And the Bahamas,
theirs.
The problem is that this doesn't work everywhere yet. It's especially
difficult when we have lots of varying subnets - nearly a thousand of
them right now - and more to come as more gateways get set up. And
they change DAILY.
So what we're doing is continuing for a while to use encapsulated
routing (aka "tunnelling") where packets destined for any piece of
network 44 are routed to 44.0.0.1, and then encapsulated and shipped
onward to the appropriate gateway.
People can bypass this, of course, simply by installing "shortcut"
routes in their local region of the net. They just shouldn't advertise
those shortcut routes to the internet "core" to avoid confusing
things.
>> The technology exists now to make mirrorshades either obsolete,
>> or just a transition system for legacy systems. The technology
>> has existed for years. The core internet routers support classless
>> routing, as do a lot of ISPs and other networks.
Yes, but in reading this, I begin to believe we've lost sight of a goal.
The goal of the AMPRNet has been to create as well-connected a network
as we can. That means well-connected internally - i.e., can packets
get from one place to another via amateur radio, as much as possible
without the use of telephone lines, internet, or the like.
The goal isn't to create nifty radio gateways so that local hams can use
them as a radio-based ISP to get on the Internet - the goal is to build
a network. In a very large sense, the internet connectivity we have is
more-or-less a side issue of the radio network research.
I'm still happy to operate the encapsulating router that keeps the
pieces of net 44 talking to each other, and I don't mind people using
it to get traffic from the rest of the internet to network 44.
But really, if what you want to do is become a ham radio ISP in your area
is get yourself a block of non-44 addresses, have them CIDR routed to the
core with your station as the gateway, and become a ham-internet provider.
I'm sure your ISP will oblige.
>I thought it was a legality issue not a technical one.
Management of your transmitter and the content of what it issues is
always your responsibility. You can't delegate it just because the
incoming connection had a source address on network 44.
I hope this clarifies some part of the issues.
- Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:33:47 GMT
From: brian@nothing.ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
Subject: Gateway from changing IP
>I'm trying to understand why traffic has to go through mirrorshades...
Historically, because of limitations of the early routing protocols,
there could only be one point of attachment between networks. If the
AMPRNet (network 44) is viewed as a monolithic network [which in the
absence of classless routing, is the only way it can be viewed], there
can only be the one connection point, and that is the system known as
'mirrorshades.ucsd.edu' or 'ampr.org'.
We divide network 44 up into smaller bits. It has recently become
possible to advertise (i.e., send routing info) to much of the internet
that a particular bit is reachable via a specific gateway.
For example, it would be possible to use non-Class-A routing to
advertise that instead of all of 44/8 going to San Diego, the piece of
net 44 that serves Los Angeles (44.16/18) is to be sent to the Los
Angeles gateway system, currently w6vio.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.37.26).
And the piece for San Diego goes to our gateway. And the Bahamas,
theirs.
The problem is that this doesn't work everywhere yet. It's especially
difficult when we have lots of varying subnets - nearly a thousand of
them right now - and more to come as more gateways get set up. And
To be continued in digest: tcp_96_247E
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
