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PA2AGA > TCPDIG 22.06.96 17:50l 194 Lines 7008 Bytes #-10974 (0) @ EU
BID : TCP_96_130B
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Subj: TCP-Group Digest 96/130B
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From: pa2aga
To: tcp_broadcast@pa2aga-10
Subject: TCP-Group Digest 96/130B
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$50 spread out amoung the thousand of TCP/IP'ers worldwide is really
insignificant. I suspect that this money is only used for the
administration of issuing domains? If it goes towards anything else
in support of the internet then we should certainly pay our fair share.
Maybe the ARRL would foot the bill. In any event if it turns out we
do have to pay it it should be some representing organization, which
we in turn support, that pays the bill - like arrl or tapr - not an
individual.
Doug
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 07:02:00 -0000
From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow)
Subject: NIC billing for AMPR.ORG
Brian Kantor wrote in a message to Mike Bilow:
BK> The Internic is attempting to bill me $50 for renewal of the
BK> AMPR.ORG domain.
BK> I *PERSONALLY* refuse to accept the charge. From my point
BK> of view, they just decided to bill me because no one else's
BK> name was handy.
BK> And I don't want to handle money for this; I get enough
BK> abuse from hams without accusations of malfeasance and
BK> diversion of funds that are inevitable in such cases.
No, clearly any organization which takes responsibility for handling this
money
should be a non-profit corporation of some type.
BK> The bill appears below.
BK> So, what to do? I'd appreciate suggestions. Some things
BK> (that are or are not practical) occur to me:
BK> + we could try to appeal to the Internic that AMPR.ORG is a
BK> special case and we should get it for free, much as hams get
BK> allowances worldwide. They might even make it a corporate
BK> donation.
Actually, I suspect that Internic would open themselves up to a legal
challenge
from other organizations. Besides, on what basis would we be more deserving
of
a corporate donation than, say, the American Red Cross? If such an argument
is
made, I would base it on the unique status of amateur radio in international
treaty and in U.S. statute as prohibiting pecuniary interest.
BK> + we could refuse to pay and try to get a legal injunction
BK> against them deleting the domain name based on some aspect
BK> of contract law maybe
This might be an interesting approach. It may even have some chance of
success, although I don't see it costing less than $50.
BK> + we could find someone who is willing to handle the
BK> collection of donations and pay them
Other than ARRL, I'm not sure you could find anyone willing. You also don't
want to have the possibility open for the collection agent to claim ownership
of the domain.
BK> + we could each send one penny (or whatever the smallest
BK> coin of our respective country is) individually to the
BK> Internic in payment
I particularly like this idea. I'm not sure you could get 5000 people to do
it, so perhaps something more along the lines of 10 cents each would be more
appropriate. Another complication, of course, is that it would be illegal to
solicit donations over amateur radio -- and therefore AMPR.ORG -- itself. As
far as I know, Internic has no procedure for handling cash, especially if it
arrives in envelopes 10 cents at a time.
BK> + we could attempt to obtain a new domain name that isn't
BK> under the aegis of the internic - in some other country, or
BK> maybe an international domain, or the like
Why not go all the way and just set up a competing Internic? After all,
Internic has no actual authority other than that everyone points their name
servers at it. If an alternative Internic was started, it could offer
discounted or even free registration rates.
-- Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:43:58 EDT
From: "Ralph R. Swick" <swick@x.org>
Subject: NIC billing for AMPR.ORG
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996 Doug Crompton <admin@marconi.crompton.com> wrote:
> if it turns out we
> do have to pay it it should be some representing organization, which
> we in turn support, that pays the bill - like arrl or tapr - not an
> individual.
I completely agree. As a voting member of both of the suggested
organizations, I think that I prefer to have TAPR take this over
if its board is willing. I'm not sure it's worth asking now for
an exemption from the fee though I do worry about the precedent
since the fee will certainly rise over time.
In the interim, I'm also happy to send my dollar somewhere.
(I object to spending 32 cents to mail only a dime!)
I'm also willing to engage in an off-line dialog if Brian and/or Greg
want to chair it. Brian, let us know your preferences.
-Ralph kd1sm
kd1sm@x.org (w)
kd1sm@zipnet.net (h)
kd1sm@kd1sm-1.ampr.org (p)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 10:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Duncan <id@cc.mcgill.ca>
Subject: NIC billing for AMPR.ORG
On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Mike Bilow wrote:
> We could declare ourselves our own country, I suppose. Perhaps there
> should be a special top-level domain for truly international
> organizations.
It might set an interesting precedent if the roots could be pursuaded to
support .AMPR.
--
Ian Duncan <id@CC.McGill.CA>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 07:26:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Walt DuBose - K5YFW <k5yfw@www.kelly-afb.org>
Subject: NIC billing for AMPR.ORG
The MilNet is exempted from the charges.
I too see a "greater" problem if the NIC starts to charge individual IP
addresses as they do the .org's. This system (www.kelly-afb.org) is a
government owned system operating outside the MilNet...we haven't been
billed for this "yet" or at least I don't know that we have...I haven't
received the invoice and I'm sure my Inet Provider would forward any
"bill" to me. I have 4 IP addresses registered that I use on the
hambands...mostly a local RF LAN and rarely connected to a gateway. I
would not like having to pay $50 per address each year.
For Brian, could we re-register the AmrOrg domain in another country that
doesn't require payment or do you suppose that other countries will
follow the NIC's lead and start charging a "fee-for-service"?
As a former contracting officer for the government, my precaution is, "you
should always negotiate before paying any monies".
Walt DuBose
Systems Manager
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