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ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.09.03 10:16l 233 Lines 9832 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: APRS symbol updates WAS: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com
From: WA8LMF2@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:06:40 EDT
X-Message-Number: 36
In a message dated 9/9/2003 7:12:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
scott@home.miller.org writes:
>What I'd be really interested in is a symbol set in scalable vector graphic
>format or something similar. That way you can scale them to whatever size
>you want. As Bob's always pointing out, they're not supposed to be icons -
>they're supposed to be map symbols.
I could easily convert the symbols with a raster-to-vector trace utility that
I use to convert advertising logos to symbol fonts. What format would you
propose?
WMF (oops Windows-centric... don't know if other platforms support it)
PFB - Postscript font format
TTF - True type font format -- (Windows centric but usable on some other
platforms)
[ Note: The font formats are VERY scalable but only support one color
against a transparent background; i.e. the normal properties of text. ]
SHP - ESRI shape file (high end GIS apps support it on several platforms but
does anything else?)
DXF - Autocad exchange format (Is it usable on 'nix systems or Macs?)
AI - Adobe Ilustrator (Definitely works on both Windows PCs and Macs but does
anything on 'nix systems deal with it?)
CDR - Corel Draw (The most widely used vector drawing app on Windows PCs and
my personal favorite for importing/modifying/exporting vector images in other
formats. Again highly Windows-centric although it is now available on the
Mac. However most Mac partisans swear by Adobe Illustrator.
VIS - Microsoft Visio (quick sketching and drawing app - part of recent
versions of MS Office. Again Windows-only)
Or do we create the effect of scalability by creating the same symbol
bitmaps in several sizes, perhaps the now-standard 16x16 pixel version,
Rodger's 20x20 version and one at 24x24 pixels and let the app select the
appropriate symbol at one of three sizes. I suspect this would be easier
to include as an update to existing programs....
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.com
Ham Radio/Mobile SSTV page: http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf/ham
APRS Stuff
http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf/aprs
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Subject: RE: Global APRS messaging
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:10:38 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 37
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, AE5PL Lists wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Again, you do not understand how range filtering works on a server
>filter. The server maintains a list of "last heard" positions for all
>stations heard....
I understand that perfectly well and what this discussion has demosntrated
is that persons implementing such filter techniques based on last-heard
position data and using that to filter message traffic are VIOLATING the
fundamental message delivery construct in APRS. to wit:
As originally designed, all any IGate has to do is to HEAR a single packet
on RF from a user (no matter what its content) and that IGate then became
responsible to deliver that users incomming message traffic. Thus a
traveler with a D7 (with no GPS in his pocket) would get his messages
anywhere on the planet. ALl it had to do was be ON and have tranmitted
one packet (no matter what the last position was)...
What such filtering you describe has done is to add additional requiremnts
to the message delivery system that I dont think are known or necessarily
agreed to by the rest of APRSdom. to wit:
Filtered streams (as you have described them implemented) will only
deliver message traffic to users who have properly transmitted a VALID and
ACCURATE position packet, identifying them as being in "range" or a given
IGate.
I am NOT necessarily saying this is wrong, I am just saying it DOES NOT
IMPLEMTENT APRS MESSAGE DELIVERY AS DESIGNED. Such piecemeal
disentigration of fundamental principles in the APRS sytstem unilaterally
by independent authors need to be well understood by all parties.
Bob
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Subject: RE: APRS symbol updates WAS: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@home.miller.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:40:10 -0700
X-Message-Number: 38
I think Illustrator might be good as a source format... I'm assuming
Illustrator has the ability to save to SVG. When we discussed this on the
opentrac list, it was decided that it'd be a good idea to distribute a bunch
of pre-scaled bitmaps along with the vector versions to promote their use in
more applications.
Opentrac symbology is, to some extend, derived from MIL-STD-2525B. The
Common Warfighting Symbology itself isn't really directly applicable, but I
really like the way it sets up a hierarchy of symbols. It also adds a set
of common modifiers (e.g., to indicate mobility type of a unit) and defines
where in relation to the symbol certain information will be displayed. I'd
love to see this in APRS.
Yeah, little red cars are fun to watch blip along the map. But during a SAR
operation I'd rather see a nice readable symbol with a line pointing at the
exact location of the unit, and maybe modifiers telling me that the unit is
APRS message-capable and its MIC-E status flag.
A good implementation of this should also do its best to space symbols out
so they don't overwrite each other. Rather than having six cars on top of
each other, spread out six car symbols in a circle or arc and have lines
indicating their actual positions.
Or if you want to reduce clutter, have little tiny icons on the map that
explode to full-size symbols (or a set of symbols for closely-packed units)
when you mouse over them.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: APRS symbol updates WAS: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com
From: lists@k7iii.net
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:50:30 -0400
X-Message-Number: 39
On Tuesday, Sep 9, 2003, at 20:06 US/Eastern, WA8LMF2@aol.com wrote:
>I could easily convert the symbols with a raster-to-vector trace utility that
>I use to convert advertising logos to symbol fonts.
Out of curiousity, what is the utility called?
>TTF - True type font format -- (Windows centric but usable on some other
>platforms)
Apple create the TrueType format. It works on Mac OSX and pre-OSX OSs
also. I don't know about *nix platforms.
>DXF - Autocad exchange format (Is it usable on 'nix systems or Macs?)
About ten years ago there were 20 or 40 versions of the DXF format. I
don't remember exactly, but I do know we ran into problems with DXF
being incompatible with, um, DXF. I still ran into this over the years
with any app's DXF implementation to the point where I let go of any
hope that a file exported from app A would be imported into app B
correctly. However, for the level of complexity (or lack of) that
would be needed to reproduce scalable shapes/icons, it could work.
JT
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "John Langtry, VE3NEC" <ve3nec@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:12:02 -0400
X-Message-Number: 40
Here, here, Bob !
I could not agree with you more - the "smart engineers" are putting far too
much technology into ordinary machines, than most of us (mortals) want, or
even need !
Some down to earth examples of what you're saying; my Jeep GCL has (count
them) *seven* microprocessors in the vehicle.
Down to an even more basic set of home applicances, a washer and dryer.
I had a 30 year old Maytag set, mechnical dial, which operated and release
certain contacts, at the appropriate time.
"Management" wanted a new system, so okay, I spend nearly $ 3K for a new
set of Maytags. (I *assumed* that I'd get a solid reliable set of machines,
as in the days of Gordon Jump.)
(All I want is clean clothes, simple enough request.)
Well, apparently the old simple mechanical system with a fraction
horse-power motor has gone the way of the big American car with a V-8 RWD
driveline.
That simple fractional horse motor has been replaced with (basically) a
H.D. "stepper" motor, and a processor card which has more I/O and
horsepower than my home computer !
(All I want is clean clothes, remember ?)
This is all well and fine, and I'm told that the use of this computer
"intelligence" is more frugal with the use of water, and power (but now I
have to power a large computer and its peripheral boards and the "stepper"
motor). This machine is so complex, that they don't put the S.D. on the
back cover anymore, they give you an "A" sized sheet, with all the
interconnects !
We did have a "failure" of the 'drive' card, and the stepper motor; fixed
under warranty - but why can't I have a machine with a simple fractional
horsepower motor and mechanical timer ? (Gone into history, Maytag tells
me.)
And we did not buy the "top of the line" Maytag; apparently it's not yet
available in Canada. This machine has no knobs or buttons, "You talk to
it." Really ? Yep, but we can't make it understand French yet, nor someone
like yourself with an "accent." So the Maytag folks told me.
Remember, all I want is clean clothes.
They tell me, that the next generation; No problem, I can "instruct" my
washer and dryer with a web-based interface, which I can use remotely from
my office. (Wonderful !!! Can't wait. Yeah, right.)
But all I want are clean clothes !!!!
I'm at the point now, where I'll pay a manufacturer *extra* not to put a
microprocessor in my appliances or vehicles !!!
vy 73 de John VE3NEC
905-873-8715
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