| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.09.03 10:11l 234 Lines 9726 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1895-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 09, 2/8
Path: DB0FHN<DB0THA<DB0ERF<DB0FBB<DB0IUZ<DB0GOS<ON0AR<ON0AR<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 030911/1354Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:8138 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1895-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com list has MIC in it - huh ?
From: "Maiko" <maiko@langelaar.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 8:8:39
X-Message-Number: 7
Stephen wrote :
>For starters, what should an icon for a "Node" look like ?
I'm happy with the BOLD letter N, as is shown at the following URL :
http://db.aprsworld.net/datamart/symbol-count.php
Why do we have to design a new one ? It seems there is one already.
Maiko Langelaar / VE4KLM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:11:26 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 8
This thread is going all over the map and picking up all kinds of baggage
and splinters. Let me BOUND those and separate them into their proper
categories:
HOMEPORT: This concept is simple. It lets you specify your HOME IGate
for your positions to go when you are far distant from it. You may only
have one such designation active at a time. It is done by explicit
CALLSIGN of your chosen IGate.
Since this is usually your home (your own backyard) when you are away,
then this is self policeing. I proposed it as a way to cut down on QRM
from long paths of distant travelers.
AREA TARGETS: This is a different (and far more dangerous) concept that
allows someone to target an "area" without having to know the callsign of
the IGate he intends to flood with his packets (Think SPAM).. ALl kinds
of codes and numbers, and airport designators have been proposed. I don't
like any of these because they are not inherrently built-in to APRS except
maybe Grid Squares.
My basis for any such concept is to use what is already fundamental to
APRS. That is, CALLSIGNS and LAT/LONG. THus, if you want to target an
area, there is no better universal system within APRS other than LAT/LONG
of your target or the IGates call (see #1).
But you will argue, but I am mobile and I want to target NY CIty. and I
dont knw its LAT/LONG. I ask, what is easier and the most uinversal to
find? I say LAT/LONG. Even looking at a 100 year old map, I can find
the lat long of an area. If I konw the lat long of anything within a few
hundred miles, I can easily estimate the LAT/LONG of an area. Maps are
everywhere (including the seat pocket in front of you)... Airport
designators, Grid squares, CLINS or whatever are not.
And although I think the idea of being able to target areas with our
packets is a powereful techinque, I really hate to think of the
consequences. HERE IS WHY:
1) The concept of HomePORT was intended to REDUCE network load by finding
a more efficient way for a distant traveler to keep his home (those who
care) informed of his travels. Most of us arent on the road so this is an
insignificant isssue, but if it gets ONE traverler to quit using WIDE7-7,
then we just saved 128 packets off of the network in 5 states around him!
2) The concept of Targeting packets to areas is orders and orders of
magnitude more portential for damaging the network. Since lets say only
1% of us are on distant travel at any one time (see #1). That means the
other 99% of us have no need for the homeport concept. But Boy, this
Target concept looks neat! I'd like to try that. Geeze, since Joe is a
friend of mine in LA, I can target all of my traveling aorund my hometown
of Timbuku so that he can watch me drive to and from work. Wow. this is
neat.
Thus, now, we have 99% of the rest of APRS taking advantage of this new
technique to force their packets on the rest of us. I dont like it.
Yes, I LIKE it in concept, but it will kill us... and must be avoided...
de WB4APR, BOb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Node Symbol on map.findu.com list has MIC in it - huh ?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@home.miller.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:04:49 -0700
X-Message-Number: 9
What I'd be really interested in is a symbol set in scalable vector graphic
format or something similar. That way you can scale them to whatever size
you want. As Bob's always pointing out, they're not supposed to be icons -
they're supposed to be map symbols.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Patrick Karp" <pkarp@conwaycorp.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:54:22 -0500
X-Message-Number: 10
Commenting to AE5PL's post first
>>>One thing is for sure... if you are trying to get packets back home,
>>>you'll know the IGATE callsign/designator for "home base".
>>
>>I disagree. I would venture to say that 50+ per cent of RF operators
>>don't know the local IGate callsign nor the designator which that sysop
>>is using.
Out of that 50% do you think are trying to get packets back home? ;-) I
would think that if anyone wishes to use such a feature they would learn the
Igates callsign.
>Which is one of the main reasons I wanted it to require them to figure
>that out and to BECOME familiar with their local APRS network. After
>all, if users don't get familiar with their local network, then we are
>doomed to failure.
>
>I am not proposing it this way to make it hard. I am proposing it this
>way because it is the only way to educate users. We must convey tto them
>that it is their network, then need to understand it to work it. THen
>they will take more ownership of their local networ...
>
>de WB4APR, Bob
I could not agree with you more Bob! I tried to use this feature about a
year ago when I took a trip from Arkansas to Michagan. I tried to get ahold
of a michagan Igate to request that he allowed any packets addressed to me
be transmitted to RF. Unfortunately I was unsuccessful. The method you
propose here in this thread would solve the problem I had. By allowing my
wife to open the Michigan Igate as her homeport.
She is a ham and was connected to the Internet at the time so I would not
have need to open a home port in Arkansas. I was able to communicate with
her in the Missorri where a local Igate saw me as a local station but past
that I had no luck.
Here are my thoughts of this idea. First off it seems that anyone
interested in using this feature would need to know some info as to how to
determine the location of there homeport. So why not just use the Igates
callsign. It's apart of APRS already and many Igates already send out
packets that indicate that they are Igates.
A time limit to this feature is a great Idea. Then it is only on when in
use. 30 min sounds good to me. In that time alls a station needs to do is
send another packet to keep it turned on. This packet should have Hport as
the last hop in the path. And the packet should be addressed to the Igate
itself. That way a user must intentionally turn on the feature and the
Igate will Ack that it recieves the request. To turn the feature off you
can have Nport at the end of the path to indicate No Home port.
Pat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Patrick Karp" <pkarp@conwaycorp.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:09:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11
For this reason is why you limit the feature by time. If all you wish to do
is let those around your home post no you location then your wasteing the
ability to communicate with those folks. After all Communication is what we
are about not just tracking.
Bob Wrote:
>2) The concept of Targeting packets to areas is orders and orders of
>magnitude more portential for damaging the network. Since lets say only
>1% of us are on distant travel at any one time (see #1). That means the
>other 99% of us have no need for the homeport concept. But Boy, this
>Target concept looks neat! I'd like to try that. Geeze, since Joe is a
>friend of mine in LA, I can target all of my traveling aorund my hometown
>of Timbuku so that he can watch me drive to and from work. Wow. this is
>neat.
>
>Thus, now, we have 99% of the rest of APRS taking advantage of this new
>technique to force their packets on the rest of us. I dont like it.
>
>Yes, I LIKE it in concept, but it will kill us... and must be avoided...
>
>de WB4APR, BOb
Pat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Bill Vodall WA7NWP" <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:29:25 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bruninga
>HOMEPORT: This concept is simple. It lets you specify your HOME IGate
>for your positions to go when you are far distant from it. You may only
>have one such designation active at a time. It is done by explicit
>CALLSIGN of your chosen IGate.
The HOMEPORT idea is a good one. We could be using it right now
to watch some of our locals on a trip.
But... APRS needs to more towards more abstraction, not less. IGATES
come and go (as they should) and knowing the exact callsign to use is
difficult to find and error prone. Better to use something like a region
indicator (PNW, etc) or my favorite, Grid Square [CN87].
A good example of successful abstration is using "rotate.aprs.net" rather
then "first.aprs.net" and "second.aprs.net" rather then [128.143.202.192]
and [134.173.254.38].
Going to pseudo paths such as "LOCAL","REGION" or "IGATE" instead
of the varying region by region paths of WIDEN-N is another example
of where we'd benefit from abstraction.
>AREA TARGETS: This is a different (and far more dangerous) concept that
This is indeed scary. It would be far too tempting. Hey Bob - what's your
area indicator again? <grin>
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
