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ZL3AI > APRDIG 11.09.03 11:07l 243 Lines 9290 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 08, 5/7
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:30:39 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 29
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, AE5PL Lists wrote:
>>One thing is for sure... if you are trying to get packets back home,
>>you'll know the IGATE callsign/designator for "home base".
>
>I disagree. I would venture to say that 50+ per cent of RF operators
>don't know the local IGate callsign nor the designator which that sysop
>is using.
Which is one of the main reasons I wanted it to require them to figure
that out and to BECOME familiar with their local APRS network. After
all, if users don't get familiar with their local network, then we are
doomed to failure.
I am not proposing it this way to make it hard. I am proposing it this
way because it is the only way to educate users. We must convey tto them
that it is their network, then need to understand it to work it. THen
they will take more ownership of their local networ...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4tec@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:58:05 +1000
X-Message-Number: 30
You obviously have not been to OZ
I think our digi passed 2 packets last our, one of which was it ident !
Snigger Snigger
>From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
>Reply-To: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
>To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Homeport
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
>
>I cannot imagine any APRS digi having idle time on its hands to ask for
>more data...
>bob
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:05:11 -0700
X-Message-Number: 31
From: "Wes Johnston" <wes@johnston.net>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: Homeport
>Bob, this sounds similar to something I suggested a few weeks ago. Then,
>the
>idea was to add the airport designator of your town AFTER the standard
>RELAY,WIDE path elements. So if I wanted to send a packet to my home town
>from
>anywhere in the world, I could make my mobile station's path RELAY, WIDE,
>SMS
Wes,
Airport designators are not specific enough and you'd actually be better
off using CLLI codes that can be defined all the way down to a piece of
equipment at a specific location. PRKRAZ, for example is part of a complete
CLLI code that defines the town and state of the FireNet Hub in Parker, AZ.
And, that happens to be the tactical callsign of that hub.
This concept was suggested back when packet first began, and never went
much further than a few different networks, but I'll tell you it's a tried
a true system in the telecommunications industry and has been for many many
years.
Poston, AZ, would be PSTNAZ
Victorville, CA would be VTVLCA
etc.
You can even look these up and find the correct ones for your town!
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: RE: Homeport
From: "Wes Johnston" <wes@johnston.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:08:05 -0400
X-Message-Number: 32
I'm just thinking outloud.... Pros and Cons in no particular order....
If you create a packet specificallly to request your data be sent home, you
have a packet which contains 30 bytes or so....
If you add a FIPS code, or airport designator to your existing dumb tracker
packets the cost is 7 bytes extra.
To send a request which lasts from "now" until "forever" is fine... so long
as the IGATE you are intending to use doesn't crash. If it reboots, it'll
need a reminder that you have designated it as a preferred IGATE for your
packets. There is no way around it, you'll have to send periodic requests.
Really this is easy with a kpc3 as a tracker... you make one of the extra LT
buffers TX your information every 30 minutes. Although a home station could
do it for you, I think the proper place is at the tracker. There is no
solution for tinytrack to do this.
It is also possible that javafilters would prevent a position report from
reaching a given IGATE... My igate is listening for stations only 500 mile
raduis and any and all messages. So, a message packet would get thru to an
igate in this case. For example, an IGATE could hear all messages, and when
it heard a my request that it be my IGATE, it would send b/mycall1/p1*/ to
the java filtered server. Of course another solution is to allow the IGATE
to register it's designator with the javafilter server. Such a filter
doesn't exist today, but it could - and would allow me to run my normal 500
mile raduis filter AND any packets with my FIPS code or airport designator
in the path..
Perhaps there is a need for both methods.... a home port message scheme and
an extra path element scheme.
Wes
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Randy Allen <ka0azs@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 20:08:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 33
Would it be significantly shorter in terms of packet length to define
Homeport by Grid Square rather that Lat/Long, and also be more universal
than Airport and FIPS codes? I know I can remember my home grid a lot
easier than the lat/long if I need to program in the field.
And then, the question would be how many digits? Would 4 be enough for
this purpose (EM79 in my case) or do we need more precision (EM79VQ).
Either is easier for me to remember than 39.68683 -84.21550
--
Randy Allen, KAĜAZS
EC, Montgomery CO Ohio
OH Dist. 3 ARES Web Page:
http://www.qsl.net/ohd3ares/
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "Wes Johnston" <wes@johnston.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:15:25 -0400
X-Message-Number: 34
Now that is a good idea... So now we have option of zip code, FIPS codes,
and airport designators. Many options for people wanting options. <grin>
I just received an email from Jim wa6oft which suggests CLLI codes.... So
suffice it to say, we have options. And there doesn't need to be a standard
b/c the whole point to this is to get packets to a place where people WANT
to see what you are doing... and you can ask them for the name of the local
IGATE if they want to see your packets.
What about zip codes with a wildcard.... 29150 is my zip... but 29154 is
also close by... so I could use a catch all of 2915* at my IGATE to catch
packets which were send to 29150 or 29154... a tracker's outbound path would
be RELAY, WIDE, 29150 ... or just list all of the zip codes I want to
collect data for as you suggested. That'd work.
One thing I don't want this to turn into is what The Rose network turned
into... a bunch of area code and exchange numbers for node names.... what a
nightmare that was! Does anyone really know where node number 803773 was
located? <smirk>
Wes
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Subject: RE: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:25:38 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 35
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Wes Johnston wrote:
>I'm just thinking outloud.... Pros and Cons in no particular order....
>
>If you create a packet specificallly to request your data be sent home, you
>have a packet which contains 30 bytes or so....
>
>If you add a FIPS code, or airport designator to your existing dumb tracker
>packets the cost is 7 bytes extra.
>
>To send a request which lasts from "now" until "forever" is fine... so long
>as the IGATE you are intending to use doesn't crash. If it reboots, it'll
>need a reminder that you have designated it as a preferred IGATE for your
>packets. There is no way around it, you'll have to send periodic requests.
>Really this is easy with a kpc3 as a tracker... you make one of the extra LT
>buffers TX your information every 30 minutes. Although a home station could
>do it for you, I think the proper place is at the tracker. There is no
>solution for tinytrack to do this.
I do not want anything that encourages more periodic packets... Its
ludicrous to transmit packets once very 30 minutes for the eventuiallitiy
that a given IGate may crash (what once a year?). That is why I included
the Homeport Query that if you want to, you can query it to be sure it
still has you...
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:31:48 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 36
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Randy Allen wrote:
>Either is easier for me to remember than 39.68683 -84.21550
Forget that format anyway. No one but computers internally use that
format. APRS uses the GPS NMEA standard way of reporting positions as
DEGREES and decimal minutes. And besides.
A degree is 60 nautical miles. A minute is one nautical mile.
Thus remembering your home as N39 41.16 and W84 12.93 not only is easier
to remember, but Then the location of your HAM club which is about 4
miles north is N39 45 and your Ham store that is 5 miles W is W84 17
etc..
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