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ZL3AI > APRDIG 11.09.03 11:06l 253 Lines 9409 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:15:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 21
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wes Johnston [mailto:wes@johnston.net]
>Posted At: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:45 PM
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Homeport
>
>Ijust don't know how else to suggest a starting point for
>naming IGATEs.
My proposal is that you don't name them. Use lat/lon and a home or port
message.
>One thing is for sure... if you are trying to get packets
>back home, you'll
>know the IGATE callsign/designator for "home base".
I disagree. I would venture to say that 50+ per cent of RF operators
don't know the local IGate callsign nor the designator which that sysop
is using.
>Xastir for example, won't IGATE something out if another
>IGATE has beaten it
>to the punch. So, it would be OK to have more than one IGATE
>in an area
>with the same designator.
While this may, on the surface, seem like a neat feature, it does have a
major drawback. Different IGates have different coverages and while one
IGate may see another IGate gating a packet, the intended recipient may
not.
>what if you are 4 hours into a weekend trip and your local
>IGATE reboots?
>unless the messages are repeated periodically, or in each packet (my
>suggestion with PATH seeded elements), then you'd be screwed for the
>remainder of your trip. Of course your idea of programming a
>home station
>to send the messages would work... provided you remembered to
>program the
>home station to do it... (I'm being a little cynical - my
>home station is
>"advertising" 3 local repeaters on aprs as we speak, so
>setting up the home
>station to beacon an IGATE request for your ammo can wouldnt
>really be a
>problem.
That is a good point. Instead of using a homeport message, the home
station could simply put your subscription text into the home station's
posit. Since home stations shouldn't be beaconing very often, this
would be a minimal load increase on the RF channel.
>Good point... posits from my friends in germany wouldn't get thru the
>javafilters... bummer.
But, as pointed out, there could be a way around it by using having the
IGate automatically use messaging or a comment line to redefine the
filter. Server filtering also precludes trying to use the path as a
routing mechanism on APRS-IS, however.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: Re: Adding location "SMARTS" to APRS (HLR VLR)
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:33:43 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 22
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Andrew VK4TEC wrote:
>Its really funny you talk about this Bob.
>I was equating APRS to the GSM mobile phone model.
>Maybe we should have a HLR and VLR for APRS stations.
>Home location register - where you normally are.
>Visitor location register - where you were last heard.
>The system could send a message out a igate it knows where you are.
>If not then send it to all nodes.
Its kinda the reverse of that. APRS already knows where everyone is.
What the homeport concept is about is knowing where he wants his position
packets to "go"... and I want to limit that to only one choice. Else we
hve the potential for QRM wars.
bob
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:43:33 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 23
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 wes@johnston.net wrote:
>Bob, this sounds similar to something I suggested a few weeks ago. Then, the
>idea was to add the airport designator of your town AFTER the standard
>RELAY,WIDE path elements. So if I wanted to send a packet to my home town from
>anywhere in the world, I could make my mobile station's path RELAY, WIDE, SMS
>(sms is my air port designator).
That is what I have wanted all along, was for the APRS-IS to act just like
a digipteater. If I used a path of RELAY,WIDE2-2,XXXXXX then the XXXXXX
Igate would pickup that packet off the internet stream and digipeat it
back to RF. That is why I fought so hard for the Qxxx construct so that
such a path was traceable.
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Subject: RE: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:50:42 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 24
There is no debate. "Local" is defined by the laws of physics and the
limits of a 1200 baud channel to service N users reliably. For normal
APRS usage, that is about 50 users. In LA, thats about a radius of 15
miles or so. In Montanna, it could be a hundred miles or more...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Mark Earle wrote:
>Part of this debate is what is "local". To many of us who use wide area
>linked repeaters, local may indeed be several hundred miles. I can set a
>path of wide-3 and be visible for about 200 miles. This is my objective, to
>be seen that far via RF.
>
>Further, Local and Tactical may mean much greater distances than some are
>used to. For instance, an imcoming hurricane. It may be desirable in that
>circumstance to consider 2-400 miles of coastline as one local area;
>furhter include inland EOC facilities and cities which will support the
>affected coastal towns.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:07:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 25
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Wes Johnston wrote:
>True, and that covers ammo can trackers. I'm not too fond of the idea
>of a start/ end time which Bob suggested.... it needs to be some default
>length ... and the messages need to be sent perodically.... unless the
>messages are repeated periodically, or in each packet (my suggestion
>with PATH seeded elements), then you'd be screwed for the remainder of
>your trip.
You missed the point. Even in my example I used the typical defaults for
those fields of starting NOW and ending FOREVER. I was only defining the
'fields' for the format in case someone had a reason to use them. Most of
the time, a user would expect it to remain forever until changed...
the LAST thing I want to encourage is MORE packets....
Bob
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Subject: RE: Homeport in Montana
From: "Bill Vodall - WA7NWP" <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:22:13 -0700
X-Message-Number: 26
>There is no debate. "Local" is defined by the laws of physics and the
>limits of a 1200 baud channel to service N users reliably. For normal
>APRS usage, that is about 50 users. In LA, thats about a radius of 15
>miles or so. In Montanna, it could be a hundred miles or more...
Sri - I couldn't resist. It's 186 miles.
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/near.cgi?call=K7MT
It would be a heck of a lot further if it wasn't for the dozen fires and
multiple objects showing up on list.
Bill, WA7NWP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 27
On 8 Sep 2003, Richard Garcia wrote:
>The idea sounds great but how about those who run trackers ? Tracker
>meaning no laptop, just a TNC and Radio connected to the GPS.
He can enter his home port anytime from anywhere. It doesnt have to be
his mobile. And in most cases it never changes so he never has to make it
but once.
>There are plenty of people who run "ammo boxes" and simple trackers
>instead of carrying an expensive laptop in their car. Let us not forget
>that in most states an computer monitor/tv etc. that can be visible in
>the front seat is a no-no. I don't like the idea of having my laptop
>stolen and since it is too much of a distraction I don't use a laptop
>unless I am shotgun. I am sure many feel the same way.
>
>On road trips many of us can cross 2 or more states without even
>stopping which would be the only opportunity to change settings legally.
But your home port doesnt change.
>Sending messages or changing settings should be somthing to be avoided
>by all means for mobile use.
agree completely...
Bob
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Subject: Re: Homeport
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 28
I cannot imagine any APRS digi having idle time on its hands to ask for
more data...
bob
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 wes@johnston.net wrote:
>Here's another idea...
>d700 to beacon every 5 minutes. If we had a "smart digi" in the area, it would
>track when/which mobile stations were sending when and which fixed stations
>were sending when... The digi would "know" that it could expect to hear a fixed
>station at 5:30 after the top of the hour. When it predicted that there would
>be an empty slot, it would send a query on air to any participating mobiles:
>?kd4rdb? for example, and my station would beacon a packet. In this way, the
>digi could fill empty time on the network as usage permitted and when the band
>got busy, everyone's mobiles would drop back to a worst case of TXing every 5
>minutes. When I was out of range of a smart digi, my station would beacon
>every 5 minutes.
>
>Wes
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