| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 31.08.03 10:24l 304 Lines 12312 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1848-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Aug 28, 1/4
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<DB0MRW<DB0FOR<DB0SIF<DB0EA<DB0RES<ON0AR<7M3TJZ<ZL2TZE<
ZL3VML
Sent: 030830/1008Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:7360 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1848-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Thursday, August 28, 2003.
1. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
2. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
3. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
4. LPN vs Ham Call
5. Re: Filling the gaps
6. Some Interesting Numbers
7. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
8. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
9. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
10. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
11. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
12. Re: Some Interesting Numbers
13. Re: Filling the gaps
14. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
15. MIM modules - still available?
16. Highley WIDE paths
17. EEPROM Burners/Syntor Upgrades
18. Re: Highley WIDE paths
19. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
20. Re: Pleasantville (WAS: Path Police Idea)
21. APRS Point?
22. Mototola HT specs?
23. Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
24. Re: Mototola HT specs?
25. Re: Mototola HT specs?
26. RE: Filling the gaps
27. Re: Mototola HT specs?
28. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited.. .
29. RE: Filling the gaps/Backbones
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: "Wes Johnston" <wes@johnston.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:24:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1
OK, what about ke4fnu in stockbridge GA (just south of atlanta). I send an
email to this SIG on 8/17 about his excessive path of wide7-7 b/c his email
address is not listed in QRZ. Hoping one of his neighbors would gently
remind him. As of today, he's still sending that path. A path of 7-7 in a
metro area is just plain insane. The 40 station radius around him is 23
miles!
I think the automatic path police idea is great. Jim, I think you have
misconceptions of how the message will we worded. If worded properly, it's
a nice reminder. And certainly, a gentle reminder every 10 days is not
going to pis anyone off.
Here was my original posting - which no one has heeded anyway....
*********************
Can anyone in stockbridge ga contact Dave ke4fnu and educate him? I looked
him up on qrz and found no email address. His digipeater's outbound path is
wide7-7, a "tweekle" excesssive... esp since I"m in Sumter SC and heard his
digipeater with wide7-5
*********************
Wes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 2
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Jim Duncan wrote:
>I think it is a recipe for the breeding of animosity and is VERY poorly
>thought through from that aspect.....
>The bottom line is will turning the path police loose on someone REALLY
>have the desired effect? I seriously doubt it.
No, it will not have any effect on the person that knowingly and
intentionally chooses to run wide7-7. (Which he should be allowed to do
if he needs to for certain situations).. But it will be welcome
information to the new user who is not aware of the impact on the network
of such paths. Kind of like a pop-up window on a PC that tells you you are
about to erase your "C" drive and asking you "are you sure?"... Wording
will have to definately be chosen not to offend.
>Is this really THAT big of a problem? I think the onus of
>reporting/contacting lies with the local users, NOT with a piece of
>software.
If its not that big of a problem, then it will not affect that many
people. Only the ones that are hogging the network resources. If
someone wrote such software, I would expect it to only go after the
wide7-7's initially until we see how it goes. Then we as a group
re-evaluate if we go to 6-6 etc...>
Back to paragraph 1. This is why I prefer the email-feedback path as
opposed to Draconian measures of bud-listing, truncation and all the other
proposals. If someone needs to use 7-7 then I think he should be able to.
Only he is in the position to know his needs at the moment. But if he
does use it, then he should be able to tolerate an Email reminder.
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:53:04 -0700
X-Message-Number: 3
What about this one! I received this from a friend that is getting no where
trying to get this guys to wake up....
---begin---
"Friends, I need help. The same guy that has put up a weather station, home
station, and his truck using the path WIDE,WIDE,WIDE3-3 has put up another
weather station (K4OBX) using the same path. When I asked him what his
purpose of the path was, he said "Just Because". This is getting
rediqulous. Can someone PLEASE try to talk to this guy? Jim, this might be
a good one for you. He is N1DP in Elizabeth City. He is the "father" to
all KB4TOH systems and to this new K4OBX weather station.
I'm just getting tired of this crap and bad amateur practice.
---end---
Jim, WA6OFT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: LPN vs Ham Call
From: "Lumpy" <lumpy@digitalcartography.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:05:06 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4
Mike Yetsko wrote:
>You know, from a 'security' standpoint,
>I would be more concerned about broadcasting
>my license plate than my HAM call!...
Why would broadcasting your LPN be any less secure than your ham call?
Lumpy n0eq
--
www.lumpymusic.com
In Your Ears for 40 Years
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Filling the gaps
From: Robbie <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:14:55 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5
Hi Dan,
Just a thought here... Someone in the so-called valleys need to also
digipeat from a good antenna.. Does anyone in the valleys digipeat WIDE
as well as RELAY. I may be missing the point, but if I lived in one of
those valleys, it would seem I could hear the hilltop digipeaters and
display what ever they digipeated?? A mobile in the valley I would hear
and relay up to the hilltop. If I could not hear that mobile in the same
valley I am in, then it would mean there needs to be another RELAY Base
station there honoring RELAY for the mobile..
Get some people involved in aprs, :-)
Robbie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Some Interesting Numbers
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:29 -0500
X-Message-Number: 6
When Bob mentioned 20,000 hams on APRS, I was amazed. A year ago we
were under 10,000 (according to some statistics I was gathering at the
time). So I ran some queries against the posit database that I maintain
and this is what I came up with:
Over 1800 validated servers, clients, and IGates on APRS-IS
Over 1200 non-validated clients on APRS-IS
Over 19,000 RF stations seen on APRS-IS (no TCPIP or TCPXX in path)
489 stations with CW prefix (CWOP)
(Data collected over 10 day period at end of August 2003)
The good news is APRS is growing at a phenomenal rate. The bad news is
APRS is growing at a phenomenal rate. :-) We all need to work together
(read "sans personal agendas") both on RF and on APRS-IS if this growth
in interest is to continue. Paths, beacon rates, digi placements, IGate
placements, server placements and comprehensive IGate algorithms, server
algorithms, digi algorithms, etc. will all play a part in the success
(or non-success) of APRS as we go forward.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:27:01 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 7
>"Friends, I need help. The same guy... using the path WIDE,WIDE,WIDE3-3
>has put up another weather station... using the same path. When I
>asked him what his purpose of the path was, he said "Just Because".
>This is getting rediculous. Can someone PLEASE try to talk to this guy?
I think once personal contact has been made and the person does not see
the light, then that is the situation that Jim Duncan is concerned about.
That is, more pressure only creates discord and problems. In HAM radio we
can only suggest improved operating techniques and lead by example, we can
usually not create change in someone's determined habits.
Best to figure out workarounds than confrontation...
Good luck.
BOb, WB4APR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Pleasantville, revisited...
From: "Gregg G. Wonderly" <gregg@skymaster.cytetech.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:58:57 -0500
X-Message-Number: 8
>>"Friends, I need help. The same guy... using the path WIDE,WIDE,WIDE3-3
>>has put up another weather station... using the same path. When I
>>asked him what his purpose of the path was, he said "Just Because".
>>This is getting rediculous. Can someone PLEASE try to talk to this guy?
>
>I think once personal contact has been made and the person does not see
>the light, then that is the situation that Jim Duncan is concerned about.
>That is, more pressure only creates discord and problems. In HAM radio we
>can only suggest improved operating techniques and lead by example, we can
>usually not create change in someone's determined habits.
borrowing from Pete Loveall:
One of the great things about Amateur Radio operators is that they love to
help.
One of the bad things about Amateur Radio operators is that the love to help.
I've noticed a lot of type-A personalities on this list, and I've noticed
more petty bickering because people haven't recognized that they are
arguing with a type-a personality, and you can't win by arguing.
When a person has an improper path or beacon interval, or is otherwise
creating interference, there needs to be a very precise set of steps taken,
none of which should involve arguing.
1. Your path causes your packets to reduce and interfere with the available
bandwidth for APRS traffic in the greater XXX area. Please make sure that
your path has only the necessary hops to fulfill your mission.
2. Your beacon interval is short enough that it is interfering with the
ability of other operators to use the system. Please make certain that this
rate is necessary for your mission.
3. Your packets are being heard, direct at 5 area digipeaters. The hidden
transmitter effects are causing interference with the reception of other
packets. Please make sure that your power level is appropriate for your
mission.
In each case I simple stated what was happening, and asked that the person
make the appropriate choice. I don't think that any other discussion with
that person is necessary. It is important to note that we are, in fact,
police from the FCC and ARRL perspective. Amateur radio is self policing
in general, and we have utilized peer pressure and other similar tactics to
cooerce people into making the correct choices. However, there is always
freewill. People will, at sometimes unfortunate times, make the wrong
choices. If you want to belittle, antagonize and pester them about it,
you'll get some rather amazing responses from type-A personalities.
My personal experience is that I, as a type-A personality, do much better
making the right choice, when I have all the information, and perhaps some
choices.
My feeling is that there should be a 'bandwidth factor' that is computed
based on path-length and beacon interval. When this bandwidth factor
exceeds the limits that Bob has suggested (50 stations per digi), then
action should be taken.
One of the, perhaps easiest, non-direct solutions might be to create an
additional set of pages on findu, related to the digis. For each digi, the
bandwidth users on that digi should be placed in rank order. Their % use
of the digi should be visible for the past hour, day, week and month. This
would allow people to see what is happening, they could be directed to the
information if needed, and those pages could enumerate the issues and
provide nice explanitory text...
-----
gregg@cytetech.com (Cyte Technologies Inc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
