| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 22.08.03 19:02l 234 Lines 10061 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1804-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Aug 19, 2/5
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<DB0MRW<DB0SON<DB0SIF<DB0EA<DB0RES<ON0AR<WB0TAX<N1UAN<
ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 030821/1141Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:6905 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1804-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Big brother in everyday life, and it's us!
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:05:47 -0500
X-Message-Number: 8
>Can you imagine the news stories if someone was involved in a 'high
>profile incident' and APRS data indicated he made a mistake just
>before the accident where someone was seriously injured or died?
Here we go again.
Yes it's illegal to broadcast false position reports on RF. See the part
about "false and deceptive signals". If the intent is to conceal or
deceive, then it's illegal.
If you don't want anyone to know where you are, or how fast you're driving,
then TURN THE BEACON OFF.
If you're worried about getting busted for speeding (incredibly unlikely
that a judge would admit a hobby toy's output as evidence) then TRY DRIVING
AT OR UNDER THE POSTED LIMIT.
This last one is somewhat of a sore point for me.
I sometimes think that illiteracy must be a much larger problem than I
thought it was. The sign doesn't say "65 unless everybody else is going
faster".
Since starting driving in '74, I've been ticketed for speeding three times.
I deserved it once, doing 22 in a 20 zone in military housing. They ticket
at 10%. Unfortunately, my tach reading "20" looked almost identical to my
speedo reading "22". The other two were radar "revenue enhancement" tickets
which were done under impossible situations, and all it amounts to is the
cop becoming the troll under the bridge, which is an appalling abuse of
power, and even more appalling that nobody seems to care. Similar to red
light cameras where the yellow time is shortened to enhance revenue
collections. The cops and your local government are supposed to be working
FOR you, not AGAINST you.
Since '76, I have not been even pulled over except once, for a headlight
failure that literally hadn't even cooled off yet.
So do I have a problem with the cops reading my speed? Hell no.
Iffen it hurts when you do that, then DON'T DO THAT!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Big brother in everyday life, and it's us!
From: "tvsjr@sprynet.com" <tvsjr@sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:06:58 -0500 (CDT)
X-Message-Number: 9
You raise some valid concerns. However, with a bit of care, they can pretty
much be eliminated.
First, the black boxes in the vehicles are real-time data recorders. APRS
is so time-punctuated (once every two-three minutes usually) that the
chance of the radio transmitting as you're running the red light,
milliseconds before impacting the innocent family, is infinitesimal. I
would think that a good attorney could also discredit use of APRS in this
situation because of its inherent inaccuracy (at the GPS). In fact, one
could even argue that, since a bunch of amateurs cobbled the system
together, that it can't be trusted at all. We've seen plenty of packets
that are errored, trashed by a digi or IGate, etc. I'm not saying this is
my opinion, but it's certainly something I might try were I a lawyer.
Of course, I never speed... however, were one to decide to break certain
traffic laws, I might recommend the installation of a simple device known
as a power switch! I would actually drop power to the transmitter -
otherwise, an incoming message would cause you to transmit an ACK, etc.
(this is the reason turning BCON off on a D700 does NOT ensure that it will
not transmit on the APRS side.)
Of course, you're also not considering the numerous other sources of data
someone might use to put a nail or two in one of our coffins. Many of us
carry cell phones, some GPS enabled, that can provide position (and likely
speed/direction) via either GPS or by triangulation. While you're talking
on your favorite repeater, you can be triangulated. Cameras on freeways,
tolltag readers, OnStar/other driver assistance systems, ad nauseum.
<THEORY type="conspiracy"> It's quickly getting to the point that, if
you're out in public, you're likely being watched or tracked. </THEORY>
Granted, APRS makes things easier as it's readily available to anyone with
half a clue, but there are other ways to obtain the data.
I highly doubt there are any legal issues in transmitting false position
packets via APRS. It's still plaintext, easily decoded, etc. - I doubt
there are any regs stating that what you put on the airwaves must be
truthful.
Anyway, that's my $.02. I would recommend a way to easily disable (actually
power down, not just set to not beacon, since an incoming message could
cause you to transmit an ack) your APRS tracker if you have concerns. Of
course, don't forget about all the other radiating devices you carry around
that might need to be disabled as well. My D700 is certainly not always in
APRS mode, depending on what I'm doing and how many people I want to allow
the ability to find me...
73,
Terry/N5RSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Big brother in everyday life, and it's us!
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:10:24 -0500
X-Message-Number: 10
At 01:45 PM 8/19/2003 -0700, Cap Pennell wrote:
>The use of vehicle location systems (like APRS) in police and fire vehicles,
>while seeming to be a good thing, has met fierce resistance from the
>operators of those vehicles. Police and firefighters apparently don't like
>being under _that_ microscope, especially when they are "out-of-position" at
>places like the donut shop or the liquor store. A fire captain once told
>me. "Sure, you can put one of those trackers in my truck, as long as it's
>got a fuse."
If you're on the clock, then the guys paying the bills have every right to
know wether or not you're goofing off.
I heard that the trucking industry had quite a time with it as well, lots
damaged by mysterious low tree branches over the interstate, till they
simply made it a firing offence.
To be fair, the drivers have the perception that the rules were being
changed on them, after they signed up for one sort of system.. Apparently
the original policy was something like "as long as the load gets delivered
on time". Now it's expected that you obey the laws, and stay on your route.
This sort of monitoring also upsets folks who arrange to have things go
missing off of trucks, and have loads get "lost".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Big brother in everyday life, and it's us!
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:13:33 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11
At 02:00 PM 8/19/2003 -0700, Michael Harpe wrote:
>I have to admit that my first thought is that anyone
>who is doing something they should not be doing, legal
>or otherwise, with a GPS and an APRS station running
>in the car kind of deserves what they get.
>
>Mike Harpe, N4PLE
Evolution in action!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Big brother in everyday life, and it's us!
From: Brian Short <bshort4@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:09:28 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 04:09 PM, Mike Yetsko wrote:
>Since most of us here are 'technoids'...
>
>I know this has 'sorta' been discussed before. Especially with regard
>to vehicle parameters. Sometimes in how it might tie into APRS.
>
>And we always seem to come back to the 'naw, it would never get
>like that...
>
>What kind of info that we think is innocent, like APRS, could be used
>against us? Just in case?
>
>About two years ago, one of the people on this forum had his vehicle
>stolen. APRS found his vehicle and nailed some pretty nasty people.
....snip...
There are no doubt many legal issues involved and in the circumstances
you describe the APRS data itself was NOT used as evidence, as such.
Obviously, the stolen car being in possession was concrete evidence.
I seriously doubt that APRS data would ever be admissible as evidence.
What should be of more concern are the highway system cameras,
sidewalk cameras, and image processing systems. If these systems
can do facial recognition, it is reasonable to think they could easily
read license plates.
Another annoyance is the supermarket "club" cards which can track
your every purchase.
I don't really care, because I have nothing to hide.
--
See my web page: http://www.k7on.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: PCsat still ticking...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:06:23 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 13
PCsat keeps on ticking...
Since we are still getting reports of PCsat activity, we took a look at
the orbit geometry and two things are apparent.
When we are in the full sun phase, we are flying over the terminator so we
get much less albiedo and all of our sun energy is coming in from the side
panels. During this last full sun 17-31 July, PCsat was unable to
communicate in this regime (always her best power budgets in the past),
thus we declared her dead.
But now at max eclipses, we also are traveling on the sunny side directly
under the sun. Thus, with our magnetic stabilization, the TOP of PCsat
does in the northern hemisphere point to the sun. Our +Z array is our
best, putting out almost 50% more than our side panels. This is just
enough apparently to be able to support packet transmissions. And all of
the side panels are seeing good albiedo..
So today I tuned her in while in that geometry and commanded her just
fine on two orbits. We saw 4 users. THis is not meant to encourage
anyone to waste their time trying to work PCsat. Because she will only
digipeat a few packets in this regime, and would only be fully usable for
the last half of a pass IF one of the ground stations set her into low
power saving mode... but that only lasts for that orbit only...
The purpose of this email is only to advise you of how things are going...
for historical purposes...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
