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ZL3AI > APRDIG 28.07.03 11:57l 360 Lines 11771 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1688-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Jul 25, 3/6
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<OK0PPL<DB0RES<ON0BEL<IK6PYS<W4JAX<KD4GBA<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 030727/1429Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:5258 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:1688-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Long messages broken by client UI
From: "Gregg G. Wonderly" <gregg@skymaster.cytetech.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:46:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 16
The APRS network implementation via AX.25 is what contributes the most to
extraneous packets causing the network problems. The lack of explicit
routing control and the nature of RF in general are at the root. Explicit
routing can be added. The nature of RF can be managed to some degree.
Through explicit routing, packets propagating beyond their destination can
be dropped. There are lots of software problems/shortcommings related to
routing. But, we don't have many explicit routing choices in APRS that
would allow implicit routing to be used by the user. Things like ARP, ICMP
and related IP network control protocols make a lot more possible...
-----
gregg@cytetech.com (Cyte Technologies Inc)
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Subject: RE: More I-Gate questions.
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:52:24 -0500
X-Message-Number: 17
I can't answer your UIView questions, but here is some info on IGates in
general.
IGates provide a full RF to APRS-IS feed. Gating to RF is controlled by
definitions in the specific IGate software. At a minimum, an IGate will
gate to RF any messages not seen on RF that are destined for stations
seen on RF. The IGate will also pass to RF position reports associated
with gated messages. Most IGate software have further parameters to
allow always gating specific stations, etc.
Gated packets appear on RF using the third-party format defined in the
APRS spec, preventing them from being gated back to APRS-IS.
Regarding your filter settings, the command line should be:
filter r/42/-97/200
to get all packets for stations within a 200 km radius of N42, W97.
Port 14579 on texas.aprs2.net has a predefined filter of:
filter a/49/-107/25/-86 t/nm
My guess is there wasn't much, if any, activity within your range during
your test. You will not see packets gated to APRS-IS by your station.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] RE: WinAPRS 2.7.2 message bug...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 18
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Gregg G. Wonderly wrote:
>My point is only that the automatic splitting mechanism is very
>valuable.
I could only support it if it was smart enough to force the user to
consider the impact of the result. This would include these checks:
1) Not sending anything until the entire message text was completely
entered and analyzed and confirmed.
2) Analyzed the result, ie, if more than 3 lines were used, then
post a warning box about the inneficineicies of APRS and require the
sender to confirm his intent.
3) If two lines were used, then if the second line is less than 20% of the
first, then ALERT the user to the innefficiencies involved and require the
sender to confirm his intent.
4) If the message is going to a D7, then display HOW IT WILL LOOK ON
RECEIPT on the two-page four line 12x12x12x9 display and require the
sender to confirm his intent.
5) If the message is going to a D700, then display HOW IT WILL LOOK ON
RECEIPT on the 3 line 22x22x20 character display and require the
sender to confirm his intent.
Under these conditions, THen I am all for it... but ONLY then....
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
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Subject: APRS Network Protection.
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 19
SoapBOX on:
I am all for network protection. THis is a reversal of my position several
years ago. Then I believed in user education and that everyone had read and
understood the fundamental purpose, functionality and limitiations of APRS.
I wanted the end user to be in control.
....This is not working!
Now I encourage all authors to include roadblocks, hurdles and
inconvenience to stupidity where ever possible.
I no longer object to network policing of obviously detrimental originator
packets (within reason)... either at the client level, or the digipeaters.
*** But I want the policing rules to be public and well known and
standardized...*** Then we all know what to expect.
The comment of "well I need WIDE7-7 to get from X to Y" no longer can be
supported. My answer now is, well then APRS on 144.39 is not the
mechanism to communicate from X to Y. Use something else. (though local
areas can permit LONGER hops if local conditions permit)..
Thus I support these rules as a STARTING point. Lets work into this
slowly:
1) Any hops beyond 4 are not welcome anywhere
2) Local option may immediately decide that only 3 or below are permitted.
3) Any use of RELAY past the first hop are not welcome
4) Any path beyond "GATE" on VHF is to be truncated (we dont want VHF
traffic going out on HF
Others?
Also see my WEB page as to what is wrong with 144.39:
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
SoapBOX off:
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Laptop alternative
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:08:17 -0700
X-Message-Number: 20
DIN form factor Pentium 266. Looks like this would go nicely with one of
those DIN flip-out displays.
http://www.xenarc.com/product/cp1000.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Speaking of Bob's discussion of RF usage....
From: "Dave Anderson" <dandersn@citicom.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:26:16 -0400
X-Message-Number: 21
Some of us have started running UI-Traffic, a plug-in for UI-View. It
produces a webpage that's updated every 15 minutes showing packet counts
and averages per hour.
In the case of my site, located near Tampa, Florida, traffic counts are
pretty - well - at least fairly high <grin>.
http://www.aprsfl.net/trafficlive.htm
Some other (ones I know of at least) sites running this:
http://traffic.aprsca.net AD6NH - Placentia, California
http://traffic.kb7zva.com KB7ZVA - Yuma, Arizona
http://www.apritch.myby.co.uk/trafficlive.htm M0CYP - Bureau, UK (program's
author)
(if you know of more, let me know, i'm linking to them on my page)
Just "fyi"....
73 de Dave
KG4YZY
www.aprsfl.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Fixing the digis ID/NOID
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 22
WHile fixing the network, I'd like to update the list of ID versus NO-ID
digipeaters.
What follows is the list where it stood in January. If any of these
ID digis have been fixed to the proper NOID setting, let me know and
I will remove it from the list. See how to tell the difference:
>If you can hear any of these digis DIRECT, you can easily confirm if
>they have ID set or not by sending a packet with only the path of
>"WIDE2-2" (the 2 is not important). If the packet comes back in the
>form of DIGIx,WIDE2-x then the DIGIx is an ID digi, and we need to know
>that so we can tell where the national APRS network is broken.
>
>If it comes back as just WIDE2-x, then it is properly set as a NOID digi
>and users are welcome then to use the normal path of WIDE,WIDEn-N so
>that the digis can then do callsign substitution and then PATHS on APRS
>will always show where a packet entered the network.. by arriving
>everywhere as DIGIa,WIDEn-N.
>
>This list is sorted from WEST to EAST in Longitude, so it should be easy
>to find your local digi, do the test, and report back to wb4apr@amsat.org
>so I can clean up the list and repost...
>
>Thanks! de WB4APR, Bob
WIDEn DIGI Hits LAT LON
---------- ---- --- ---
VE7SLC-7 2 48 -123
VE7VAN-3 353 49 -123
BEAR 8 44 -123
VE7RQM 6 53 -123
VE7RES 4 54 -123
VE7IPB-10 244 49 -122
N6CP-1 7 36 -121 Confirmed as ID, but SYSOP will fix
VE7KIG 4 51 -121
VE7OG-12 255 49 -120
VE7TUK 4 50 -120
VE7SFX 56 50 -120
JOJ 3 46 -120
N7KMJ-10 12 45 -119
WA6YLB-4 10 35 -118
K6TVI-1 4 34 -117
W5NVH-10 17 33 -117
WA7RVV-8 186 48 -117
N7ZEV-3 7 36 -116 a HIGH digi, probably NOID, just hearing DX...
VE7PAC-12 2 49 -115
WA7RAT-12 4 35 -115
W7DXJ-1 7 35 -115
KJ7KY-15 6 34 -115
W7MOT-14 33 35 -114
WHTNKS 2 34 -113
K7MT-10 2 47 -113
RCHFLD 43 39 -113 Confirmed as an ID digi
N7XYR-1 9 37 -111
KD7DR-3 29 33 -111
LEMMON 2 32 -111
MULE 3 31 -110
WA5IHL-10 2 34 -108
WB5EKP-1 4 35 -108
WA5IHL-14 4 35 -107
W5SF-1 4 36 -106
KK7CN-8 14 41 -106
WA0BAG-5 38 41 -106 confirmed as "ID" but SYSOP will fix
KB0UUR 3 39 -105 confirmed as "ID" but not showing "I" overlay
WB0JRG-7 100 38 -105 confirmed as "ID" but not showing "I" overlay
KB5WIO-7 6 35 -102 confirmed as "ID" but not showing "I" overlay
KC5MVZ-3 5 34 -102
AI5TX-3 44 31 -102
N5LTC-3 5 31 -101
VE4GIL-3 20 50 -98
KE0VN-2 10 47 -97
W5EEY-11 5 33 -97
KD5MID-5 9 30 -96
K5WH-2 3 30 -96
WV0T-9 3 39 -95
LTROCK 125 35 -93
KM0R-3 13 39 -93
KC0IRJ-3 8 39 -93
KG5KS-3 3 36 -92
KD4TJN-3 3 35 -90
W9GSS 5 41 -90
K9HGX 2 40 -90
WB0NOO-2 53 36 -87 ID, but sysop is considering the change
W4BS-3 4 37 -87
WB0NOO-1 4 36 -86 ID, but sysop is considering the change
N4KMJ-7 3 33 -86
KB8GVQ-15 59 46 -86
W8LRC 3 43 -86
W9INX-7 6 41 -86
N8RGC 2 43 -84
W4TL-3 13 35 -84
N4NEQ-3 2 35 -84
N4SEM-12 64 21 -83
AG4PX-10 2 30 -83
KF4JEX-4 27 32 -82
VE3WZL 16 44 -82
AA4QI-1 69 30 -82
KF4JEX-3 11 32 -82
N1NFC-1 15 31 -82
N4WYK-2 59 36 -82
W8GK-5 4 38 -82
W4HF-2 5 36 -82
KA4YMY-9 23 35 -82
WA4SAS-9 2 35 -82
KA4KMA-5 22 35 -81
KA4KMA-6 26 36 -81
W4APE-9 5 35 -81
K4EME-3 4 38 -80
KD4PBS-3 7 36 -79
KF4UCI-3 2 38 -79
K8SDG-6 9 40 -79
WX3P 2 43 -78
N3XBO-4 10 40 -78
KV3B-1 17 39 -78
KB3BLS-1 25 40 -77
N4EVA-11 15 37 -77
K2AMB-3 2 43 -77
KB2EAR-1 16 40 -75
VE2RTS-3 2 45 -74
IW2GUR-11 50 46 -10
CT0XCA 4 37 -8
EB5JGM-15 2 38 -2
F6KPH-14 2 43 0
F5ISQ-10 7 43 2
EA3ANS-15 37 41 2
F5KCS-2 3 50 2
EA3F-15 2 42 2
F1BIV-2 2 48 2
EA3CWQ-14 4 42 2
EA3CWQ-15 17 42 3
F5KIS-2 2 44 4
DB0KX-2 73 51 6
DB0QT 2 50 7
DB0DBU-2 16 51 7
IW1ELO-11 25 45 8
DB0DXM 4 51 8
IK1LWK-11 34 44 8
DB0GPS 4 52 9
OZ2DIH 7 55 9
IR4PC-11 8 45 9
IA5TMF-11 66 43 10
IW5BFZ-11 4 44 10
IZ4BEQ-11 5 44 10
OZ4DIX 6 55 10
IK4XQC-11 8 44 10
IR3UT 4 46 11
DB0LWL-1 2 53 11
IR3BL1 3 46 12
OZ4DIB 3 56 12
DB0ZWI 5 51 12
IR6PS 8 44 12
IW0RED 2 43 12
IR9SMB 7 38 13
IR9AAD 35 38 13
DB0AJW 5 53 13
OE8XDR-11 2 47 13
OE3XGU 3 48 15
HG5PBD-2 3 48 18
SV2EDE-11 2 41 21
SZ1RKE 2 39 22
J41VAE 5 38 23
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