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ZL3AI > APRDIG 14.06.03 17:28l 249 Lines 10952 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Jun 11, 2/4
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: VOICE ALERT for Europe
From: "Demetre Valaris" <sv1uy@sv1uy.ampr.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:33:26 +0300
X-Message-Number: 15
Hi Bob and group,
I have tested 136.5 HZ and other subtones (not multiple of 50 HZ) for over 2
weeks and I found out the following.
I never had a single problem in my TM-D700 in my car. Never heard any half
packets at all while using a subtone of 136.5 HZ, only 2 stations using 136.5
HZ subtone.
My TH-D7 seems to hear some half/broken packets, but this happens when I was
walking on Mt. Ymittos for a few hours and at the top of the mountain there
are many TV and radio station antennas in a distance of about 2 - 3 miles from
were I was walking. But the half packets were not getting on my nerves because
they were not breaking the squelch very often.
So TM-D700 works perfectly with 136.5 HZ here in Europe for VOICE ALERT and
the TH-D7 works but you might hear a few halp packets from time to time,
especially near powerful transmitters, whereus my TM-D700 was not affected by
the powerful transmitters at nearly the same distance.
So 136.5 HZ seems a good choice for Europe and all my TH-D7s and my TM-D700
have got this subtone programmed in with the 144.800 APRS frequency.
I hope these findings are of some help for the Europeans mmembers of this
list.
BTW I think it is a good choice for USA as well because it is not a harmonic
of your 60HZ but I am not sure it is necessary to have a global VOICE ALERT
subtone although it would be nice!
===
73 de Demetre SV1UY
e-mail: sv1uy at sv1uy.ampr.org
PACKET MAIL: SV1UY@SV1UY.ATH.GRC.EURO
http://www.athnet.ampr.org/~sv1uy
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Subject: Re: Old Computers
From: John Hansen <hansen@fredonia.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:18:42 -0400
X-Message-Number: 16
> What's the purpose of Ham Radio? To provide reliable communications
>and assistance in emergency situations.
That certainly is one of the purposes of Ham Radio in the U.S., but even in
the U.S. it is only one of many purposes (In particular, don't forget
advancing the state of the art, promoting international good will,
etc.) In some other countries providing emergency communications is
specifically excluded from being one of the purposes of ham radio.
I agree with virtually everything you said in your message, but I'm a bit
concerned that over the past couple of years the hobby has grown to be
obsessed with emergency communications to the exclusion of all other
important purposes.
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Subject: Re: replicating KISS ports under windows
From: "Joseph C. Bender" <n8xre@benderhome.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:32:32 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 17
Mark Fellhauer said:
>
>Like I said curator of OUTDATED computers...
>
>When you can buy a new tower complete with OS and a WinXP restoration CD
>for less than $500 today, there is really no excuse to be using old
>computers these days.
Sure there is. If you're not running bloated crappy operating systems, an
older machine for embedded tasks performs quite well, with less noise and
heat. Linux or *BSD will run just fine on an older system as a server OS.
I have many earlier Pentia and 486en doing firewalling tasks, and plan on
converting a 486 and 386 laptop to DIGI_NED digipeaters. Reason? They
don't need HEATSINKS and FANS and a 400W power supply to run adequately.
>Sam's Club has an entire Compaq Presario system for under $xxx,
*SNIP*
That's nice. So what? Not all of us have a few hundred dollars to toss
about here or there for a new shack computer. Not only that, I can buy
and deploy many many portable 486/Pentium 133 APRS terminal
computers/digis for that these days. If one dies, I'm still ahead of the
game.
>There is no excuse anymore for not upgrading to a reasonably modern
>computer. I recently had a client refuse to replace a Win95 machine
>running an app critical to their business. Three months ago I wrote a
>proposal to replace the machine. Last week that computer up and
>quit...died of OLD AGE.
If your clients were not executing preventative maintenance on their
business-critical gear, shame on them. They should have also have had a
backup machine to cut over to if the old one died. Your statement is a
red herring. Their behavior does not illustrate anything about running an
older computer. Any of my clients that are running a mission-critical app
with no redundant system in place deserves business loss, and if they
didn't listen to me enough, would not remain my clients. I also keep some
inexpensive, from the swap/computer show, parts on hand, to get a downed
client running again until we can get the new box in a day later. I'm not
in the hardware business, but I do strive to provide a certain level of
service.
>They were down for a day and
>half, until they could get into town an buy a new computer. The loss
>of time and revenue EXCEEDED the cost of a new computer. Holy Cow!
Oh well. Hopefully they'll have learned their lesson. You've already
spec'd out the redundant machine, haven't you, given new hardware is so
cheap?
This is off topic. But I still think you're unjustified in your thinking.
Joseph C. Bender
n8xre at benderhome net
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Subject: Re: Old Computers (was: replicating KISS ports under windows)
From: "Joseph C. Bender" <n8xre@benderhome.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:42:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 18
>And that's my point, a recent computer is perfectly capable of
>supporting legacy apps. Just not with Win95 (or MS DOS). It is not
>Y2k compliant, is not secure, is not supported with updates, doesn't
>not have automatic registry saving, etc.
DOS, more or less, does not have Y2K issues. Some funny formatting, but
it doesn't crash. I personally have had fewer issues with DOS than with
every version of windows, including XP.
*SNIP commentary*
>Hardware that originally came with Win95 has gotten to point where it's
>totally outdated and unreliable. What's the purpose of Ham Radio? To
>provide reliable communications and assistance in emergency
>situations.
Among other things. It could be just ragchewing on packet, RTTY or PSK31
(keeping in the realm of digital communications here).
>If an ATX power supply goes on my computer, I can drive 1
>mile from my house and find 3 places that sell them. Or I could
>cannibalize another computer in the house. If an AT power supply
>fails, I'm gonna have to ask around or mail order one.
You must have some terrible computer shops around your area. I can still
find AT power supplies many places. 4 off the top of my head, I'm sure I
can find more if I called around.
>What happens
>in a blizzard? What happens when the tornadoes rumble through at 3
>AM? Am I gonna be able to replace a defective or damaged piece of
>computer componentry in a timely fashion with a minimum of fuss?
Assuming a blizzard or other major weather event, chances are, you're not
going to be able to buy a part anyway. If you've planned properly, and
are THAT critical to the communications effort, you'll have a backup plan
for your radio, your computer, your TNC/modem interface, power supplies,
the whole nine yards. Age of computer gear doesn't matter. If it goes,
and you have no parts, then you're screwed, period.
The whole point is, you have no right, just as I have no right to dictate
what OS and hardware platform to the users of this list, and users of APRS
in general. If you feel better knowing you're running the latest and
greatest, fine. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to.
--
Joseph C. Bender
n8xre at benderhome net
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Subject: Re: Old Computers (was: replicating KISS ports under windows)
From: "Mark Fellhauer" <sparkfel@qwest.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:54:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 19
At 03:42 PM 6/11/2003, Joseph C. Bender wrote:
>>
>You must have some terrible computer shops around your area. I can still
>find AT power supplies many places. 4 off the top of my head, I'm sure I
>can find more if I called around.
Yup, I live in South Dakota. Which in Lakota Sioux means, "if you want
that, you'll have to drive to Minneapolis or Omaha to get it."
>Assuming a blizzard or other major weather event, chances are, you're not
>going to be able to buy a part anyway.
As I pointed out. I can cannabalize another computer. And computers with
ATX parts are far more common these days, than the old AT with ISA slots.
>The whole point is, you have no right, just as I have no right to dictate
>what OS and hardware platform to the users of this list, and users of APRS
>in general. If you feel better knowing you're running the latest and
>greatest, fine. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to.
It's amazing that people think a PIII is the latest and greatest. PIII
computers have been comercially available for OVER 4 years
now. Windows98SE could hardly be called immature. PIII's can be cooled
passively, despite claims otherwise. And if anyone here thinks that a PIII
uses more power than 386 on a acre-and-half motherboard with full height
hard drives, take a look at the amp draw on a 250 watt 120 Volt AT power
supply is and then compare that to a mini-tower system today, many of which
use a 90 to 150 watt PS. And then figure in the other energy-star
features of a current system...
There are non-Microsoft DOS alternatives out there, that run old DOS apps
just fine, and are Y2K compliant and fully networkable. Dual Boot sytems
aren't that hard to setup. I have found no application that runs on
Windows95 that will not run on Win98SE.
You are correct, I have no right to dictate to you what OS and hardware
platform you choose to use. But you do have a responsibilty, especially
when your system is part of a public network, to be resonably secure, and
Windows 95 or 3.1 is not. I know a lot of people who don't use antivirus
software, because it bogs down their old system down.
Furthermore, I used to run a Packet BBS on a PK-88 and a 386. It came to a
point where the system, due to it's age, became unreliable. The PK-88 drew
about half-an-amp in operation, and if not fed stable power had a tendency
to lock-up, usually in transmit. The 386 computer was relegated to a
dumpster and the PK-88, despite attempts to repair it, continued to behave
badly, and was retired. I have no idea what happened to it, but I hope
it's sitting on a shelf somewhere gathering dust, because it should never
be allowed to be put in service ever again. I just hope other people are
this responsible.
Mark
KC7BXS
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