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ZL3AI > APRDIG 21.04.03 09:35l 267 Lines 11217 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Friday, April 18, 2003.
1. Re: Radio Help, just a little OT
2. Re: DJ-S11T and packet
3. Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
4. Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
5. Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
6. Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
7. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
8. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
9. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
10. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
11. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
12. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
13. Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
14. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
15. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
16. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
17. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
18. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
19. Davis WWIII
20. Re: Recommended Standalone TNC for APRS
21. Multiple Sound Cards
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Subject: Re: Radio Help, just a little OT
From: "Kriss Alan Kliegle" <kliegle@rcn.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 9:13:33
X-Message-Number: 1
The ol'IC-O2AT has some strange characteristics in the memory system.
Pg 31 of the IC-O@AT operating book says:
Memory #1 The offset freq for duplex operation in M1 will be the offset and
tone (PL) applied to memory channels M2~M6 Therefore M1~M6 will have the
same offset and tone freq.
Memories #7-0 The offset freq and tone number can be memorized into each
mamory channel independantly.
M5 & M6 are limits of programmed scan. Scanning always starts with M5.
M4 Is the proirty channel.
M3 is the Call channel Pressing of "D"(CALL) recalls M3
Any help?
Kriss - KA1GJU
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Subject: Re: DJ-S11T and packet
From: "Kriss Alan Kliegle" <kliegle@rcn.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 9:32:6
X-Message-Number: 2
I've used other rig brands in similar fashion. You may get collisions
depending upon where the remote site is located. High atop a hill, like
mine, then I use it as a digi as well (RX Save off). If your site is down
in a valley w/little activity other than your home station, RX Save enabled
will help in battery consumption. I've used 17Ahr gell cells and larger
with great success on my solar powered digi projects. The RX save feature
if enabled when high atop a hill will seldom go to the save mode around
here due to the high amounts of traffic on the channel. The rig I use is
the FT-530, which has a variable save feature. It progressively streches
out the time of power save until squelch breaks. Then it starts over again.
Just chose a solar panel that will provide a positive charge into system
(to over come the draw of the wx station, TNC, and rig), even on a cloudy
day, and you will do just fine.
Kriss - KA1GJU
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Subject: Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
From: Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:53:31 -0700
X-Message-Number: 3
>These folks are using the standard $50 part 15 equipment (WiFi
>802.11b/g cards) under part 97. No hassles or worries with running higher
>power, experimenting with antennas/equipment, standard tcp/ip protocols,
>cts/rts to reduce hidden transmitter effects, spread spectrum and OFDM
>modulation. Use these cards just like you do any other piece of amateur radio
>equipment. In fact, can even be used for personal business and surfing the
>internet.
Which comes back to the whole point of my original posting. Since we
Amateurs are forbidden to use any encryption of content - it seldom makes
sense to bare your soul (network) to the neighbors by operating Wi-Fi
equipment under the Amateur service rules.
You can do the same networking with less hassles (no 10 minute ID'ing
issues, no worries about some neighbor connecting to the Amateur system)
and be doing it completely secure with advanced technologies such as VPN's
or IPSEC.
The HSMM should be leading the charge to modernize our regulations.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:14:13 -0400
X-Message-Number: 4
The "neighbors" would need to be reasonably skilled hackers (or script
kiddies) to do this. Plus, the health and welfare links being discussed (and
in fact used during the space shuttle disaster) where highly directive point
to point links. This further reduces the chances of interception without
resorting to encryption.
Further, amateurs are NOT forbidden from using "other digital codes" as long
as they are published. For example, if the published code was being used to
deny casual Part 15 users from accessing part 97 equipment, then it would be
entirely legal. Any hacker can break any network.... your "secure" part 15
networks you are touting could be cracked by any script kiddie in a short
period of time. See:
http://airsnort.shmoo.com/
Further, my real point was that hams have to obey FCC rules Just because you
are operating part 15 doesn't mean the FCC can't pull your ham ticket. They
have and do pull tickets if you are found in violation of a rule, even in
another service. If you are putting amps on part 15 gear, putting external
antennas on them, extra coax, ect. you may be breaking the law. Sure, if you
can do the link with Part 15 in a legal configuration, then do it. But if you
have to modify it to get the link, then technically you are in violation of
Part 15 rules and should be doing it under Part 97.
>You can do the same networking with less hassles (no 10 minute ID'ing issues,
no
>worries about some neighbor connecting to the Amateur system) and be doing
it completely
>secure with advanced technologies such as VPN's or IPSEC.
The first two points are easily solved in 99% of all cases (a ping packet or
SSID can be the ID and just use an alternate published digital code). As to
VPN or IPSEC, I think in a true emergency, the FCC would waive this for
sensitive lists (such as victim lists). But like I said, part 15 has its
place. *If* you can do the link with off the shelf part 15 gear, then by all
means us it. In fact, I would strongly suggest it (on channel 11). Just use
the amateur rules for the links you can't do with legal Part 15 gear.
>The HSMM should be leading the charge to modernize our regulations.
Instead of throwing stones, get involved. I'd recommend you for the group.
They (the HSMM/ARRL) have certainly shot down a number of my pre-convinced
notions about them. And I don't agree with everything they do either, but
that is the whole point of a vibrant organization. And what makes you think
they haven't already addressed some of these issues? May not have made it to
the magazine but they are being discussed and real actions being taken.
Regards,
Jeff wb8wka
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Subject: Re: HSMM hamming (was can 'o worms)
From: Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:01:48 -0700
X-Message-Number: 5
>Further, amateurs are NOT forbidden from using "other digital codes" as long
>as they are published.
Right. Which can have the same effect as encryption. So why shouldn't we
just get things changed so we don't have to "fudge" and can do it for real.
>Any hacker can break any network.... your "secure" part 15
>networks you are touting could be cracked by any script kiddie in a short
>period of time. See:
>
>http://airsnort.shmoo.com/
Really? I didn't think it was that easy to break SSH, IPSEC and VPN's.
Everybody should know that the built in WEP security and MAC restrictions on
Wi-Fi gear function like a lock on a car door. It keeps out the honest
folks but not the script kiddie with a brick.
>Further, my real point was that hams have to obey FCC rules
I never said anything different. I think everybody, hams or not, should
obey the FCC rules. Hams are licensed and, for the most part, are self
policed. So why shouldn't be able to use technologies that are available to
unlicensed folks.
>Sure, if you
>can do the link with Part 15 in a legal configuration, then do it. But if you
>have to modify it to get the link, then technically you are in violation of
>Part 15 rules and should be doing it under Part 97.
Some experimentation is allowed under Part 15 rules..
This is my point all along. If you don't need to push it, use the
unlicensed Part 15 rules with encryption, etc. If you need to get out
further, then build a Part 97 Amateur Radio link and play by the rules
there.
>The first two points are easily solved in 99% of all cases (a ping packet or
>SSID can be the ID and just use an alternate published digital code).
Yes. It's not a big deal.
>As to
>VPN or IPSEC, I think in a true emergency, the FCC would waive this for
>sensitive lists (such as victim lists).
The FCC has, IM!HO, proven to be very reasonable in the past few years. I
agree.
>But like I said, part 15 has its
>place. *If* you can do the link with off the shelf part 15 gear, then by all
>means us it. In fact, I would strongly suggest it (on channel 11). Just use
>the amateur rules for the links you can't do with legal Part 15 gear.
That's exactly what I've been saying all along. Use Part 15 with encryption
for the local stuff and go to amateur rules for the longer hops.
What I'm suggesting here is that it would be a good thing if we could use
the encryption technology on Amateur links. It would make it "more useful"
and wouldn't hurt anything.
Your comment "(on channel 11)" should be prominent in all discussions
of Wi-Fi 802.11b. Hopefully everybody on this list, specially the amateurs,
with home Wi-Fi gear is using Channel 11.
>>The HSMM should be leading the charge to modernize our regulations.
>
>Instead of throwing stones, get involved. I'd recommend you for the group.
I take back the "should". "could" would be a better word. I am involved
on their "public" discussion list. I have multiple Part-15 circuits
running, and even more Part-97 circuits on the air. I'm doing real things.
I applaud the HSMM/ARRL efforts and believe they are doing a good thing
getting publicity for the incredible digital technology we now have
available off the shelf.
To keep this somewhat on topic of APRS - there's no better way, zip cords
included, to share APRS data then via a home or local Wi-Fi network. Spring
is here, it's time to sit on the deck, kick up the feet, have a nice cold
807 or three, and use the Wi-Fi connected laptop to keep track of the Wx
from the N7RIG-6 solar barn, send APRSPLUS enhancement requests to Brent,
chat with Pete on Echolink and discuss the worlds issues with Jeff on
APRSSIG.. Amazing technology indeed. No wires needed!
Anybody who hasn't yet jumped on the Wi-Fi wave - do it. Get an Orinoco
Silver PC card. Get a WAP-11 or similar AP. Play. Experiment. Do it.
Do it today!
Same goes for APRS on 144.39! Make packets!
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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