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ZL3AI > APRDIG 02.04.03 10:47l 273 Lines 10986 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Mar 27, 3/6
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Digipeating and fun with PIDs - KISS
From: Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:17:23 -0800
X-Message-Number: 10
>KISS makes things so much simpler.
Totally!
>So why is kiss not widely used?
The only software that I know of that doesn't use KISS is APRSDOS. Bob?
My "email in the car", portable packet system using a Heath HK-21 TNC, new
$xx Icom IC-T2H HT and HP 100LX palmtop is about on line full time. It's
going to be JNOS and APRSDOS - IF - APRSDOS supports KISS. If it doesn't,
it's going to be a JNOS system. I want APRSDOS and its variants because
of all the good and useful features it provides. I hope Bob gets a few
ATU's to put KISS back in.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: APRS development?
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 09:28:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 11
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Mark Fellhauer wrote:
>At 08:02 PM 3/26/2003, Ramon F. Kolb wrote:
>
>>Interesting you're mentioning this... I'd be interested to understand
>>why you're interested in *US written* APRS software only, and not any
>>other APRS software? Patriotic reasons? (No need to flame me... Just
>>joking. But I'd still like to know)
>
>Because, like so many other ham radio (or scanner) related software, the
>U.S. has really fallen down on the Job. I'm looking at my software suite
>of Ham Radio, APRS, ACARS decoders, etc. and see that the software that
>works (really works) is mostly written outside of the U.S. Not that I'm
>complaining, but it seems to me that there's something wrong with that
>picture.
Thinking about it some more: If you're after strictly U.S. software,
Xastir doesn't figure in there. We have a world-wide developer base, but
most of them are in the U.S. We're proud of the fact that at times we've
have people adding features/fixing bugs almost round-the-clock due to the
developers being distributed.
Can't call it a U.S. product though. To me that doesn't matter a bit.
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: Digipeating and fun with PIDs
From: "Steve Dimse" <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 23:18:03 +0500
X-Message-Number: 12
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:14:13 -0500, Alex wrote
>When does one leave the field of Hobby Related Programming and enters
>the field of Software Engineering? Perhaps the question is, when does
>one takes him or herself serious? I would want to strive for
>maturity, especially if I would seek recognition. I think there's a
responsibility
>there when it comes to robustness, especially if you want to be part
>of a colorful system as APRS.
I have no problem describing my programming as hobbiest. Ham radio, and
APRS, _are_ hobbies. Everything we do within them is therefore a hobby
activity. So much the better when it is useful, performs a public service,
or gains us awards and praise, but it is still a hobby. I can't help but
feel those who belittle others for treating their hobby as a hobby are more
than likely displaying their own psychological shortcomings. Those who
really treat their APRS programming with the same compulsion they use on a
work project may be in need of treatment for OCD. Repeat after me, APRS is
a HOBBY!
I have a BS in CompSci, and was a professional programmer before medical
school (Member of the Technical Staff, Electron Device Physics Dept, Hughes
Aircraft Research Labs in Malibu). My approach to a professional project is
very different from my approach to my APRS programming. I design more,
document more, test more, and as a result, produce less, and more
importantly, enjoy it less. For me, the fun part is creating the code,
making a computer do something I dreamed up in my head. So, since it is a
hobby, and hobbies are about having fun, my focus is on the coding. The
code may have a few more bugs than it would otherwise, but that does not
mean it is OK to send non-compliant data that will crash it, any more than
it is OK to exploit the latest bug in sendmail!
I refuse to apologize because I spent time developing a new feature for
findU, rather than developing a test scafold that would throw all sorts of
bad data the parser to verify it would not crash. I refuse to apologize
because APRS is just a hobby, and I have a life.
Certainly, when a problem is encountered involving my code, I fix it when I
can, as do all APRS authors, but that doesn't mean I welcome the
introduction of data which could degrade APRS for a significant amount of
time while myself and the other authors manage to improve the code. Why
suffer through a degraded system when there is no benefit? It makes far,
far more sense to follow Bill Diaz's suggestion, to perform careful testing
on each client program away from 144.39 and the APRS IS before introducing
this data into the working system.
So, APRS is a hobby, one enjoyed by thousands, and one used daily for all
sorts of useful things. That the code may not not have the rigor of a
commercial system does nothing to diminish these benefits, nor does the
lack of rigor justify something that is done which degrades the system. Act
responsibly...
Steve K4HG
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Subject: Re: Digipeating and fun with PIDs
From: Alex <kr1st@amsat.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:19:49 -0500
X-Message-Number: 13
Steve Dimse wrote:
>Act responsibly...
Exactly my point. I'm glad we agree.
73,
--Alex KR1ST (psychologically challenged)
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Subject: WinAPRS new version screen shots
From: Mark Sproul <msproul@jove.rutgers.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:24:22 -0500
X-Message-Number: 14
I have uploaded a bunch of screen shots from the soon to be released
version of WinAPRS/MacAPRS on our new web site
You will find both WinAPRS and MacAPRS images in here, they are very
similar. I have many pictures of the Florida Keys because they are very
complicated and show a lot of detail.
The new version will support this detail level for the entire USA.
http://www.winaprs.com/screenshots/
Mark Sproul
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Subject: Re: Digipeating and fun with PIDs
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:38:25 -0500
X-Message-Number: 15
Alex:
While I am in 100% agreement with your earlier posting, one solution for the
"hobby programmer" is to make their code Open Source. XASTIR is a prime
example of this... bugs are exposed to the world and are quickly fixed.
However, I'm more inclined to think of those doing XASTIR, APRSWORLD and
other open source projects as more of a "passion" and less of a "hobby".
Passion defines a serious commitment, one has pride in their work and likes
to see it succeed. I see this in both those projects.
Moreover, APRS hams have put themselves in a position to receive federal
funding and apply APRS to mission critical applications.
Serious people should set the tone, not hobbyists, in any mission critical
application. That is not to say their is not a place for the hobbyist in
APRS... 99% of those doing it are hobbyists. But we need to aspire to that 1%
instead of being held back by the 99%. You are a 1%'er and I think code
verification and testing has a place in APRS or any mission critical
application.
Regards,
Jeff
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Subject: Re: APRS development?
From: "Earl S. Garber" <n3eg@teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:40:34
X-Message-Number: 16
Things I'd want in a new version of WinAPRS:
Indoor temp correction on WX display
Ability to (or better documentation on how to) use different paths on two
separate TNCs, one HF and one VHF
Compatibility with the older (3.XX) Precision Mapping
No more "Main application died terminating thread" warnings
Ability to save waypoints
Ability to change units in the weather display (from millibars to inches,
for example)
....and so on. Overall, I'm staying with WinAPRS for ease of use and
compatibility with my weather station / PMAP, something UI-view would
require over $100 to get working. Does it crash? Yes and no. Resource
leaks kill it in about two weeks, but that's not a major problem for me.
....N3EG
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Subject: Re: APRS development?
From: "Rich Garcia" <k4gps@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 16:37:16 -0500
X-Message-Number: 17
I got to agree UI-View is stable but you can make it crash very easly and
not due to cockpit error.
I started using UI-View and am pleased, I also run WinAPRS but since I do
I-Gate UI-View is my main program.
Now the way I managed to kill it was running 2 specific applications at the
same time, it would do it every time and I finally found the cause, a video
card!
Now I have used this video card for years and it has not given me 1 bit of
problem till I ran Ui-View32 and Weather Display together, anywhere from 1
hour to 2 days and full system lock up using Win2K. It was easy enough for
me to pull out a old PC and run Weather Display on that and network over the
WXTEXT.NOW file so I did that. A few months later I had a impulse purchase
at wallmart, a GeForce2 video card for about $xx. Roger thought it may be
the card but between a free PC and a new video card I chose the PC. Plugged
the card in and I have been running the both of them for 5 days now.
So I would not call that cockpit error but I did manage to crash the system
and on Win2K to boot! Question is what came first the chicken or the egg ??
Video card would not cause any problems at all with any of the programs but
when 2 specific ones ran it would. So is it a UI-View problem or Weather
Display problem ? who knows who cares...it works now.
As far as WinAPRS, APRS DOS, Java APRS, APRS+ etc. I have always seen some
sort of problem but so what!! It's a hobby, you can break anything if you
try hard enough. I ran WinAPRS with Afilter for a year without any problems,
I just switched to UI-View since the WXNOW.TXT feature did not work right
yet on WinAPRS. All software authors need to be commended for taking the
time to TRY to do a good job, they do what they can and sometimes other
things in life come up. I don't hear as much complaining about Microsoft and
they get paid good money to sell us garbage, why should we bitch at fellow
hams that make next to nothing ?
Speaking of that anyone want to be a Linux Elmer ??
Rich K4GPS
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