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ZL3AI > APRDIG 31.05.04 11:23l 275 Lines 10507 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, May 29, 1/2
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, May 29, 2004.
1. One short of a dozen...
2. SAR mapping support
3. Another version of APRS
4. Re: .mps extension
5. Re: SAR mapping support
6. RE: SAR mapping support
7. Re: SAR mapping support
8. Re: SAR mapping support
9. Re: SAR mapping support
10. Re: SAR mapping support
11. Re: SAR mapping support
12. Re: SAR mapping support
13. Integrating 802.11b with APRS
14. findu2 remaining funds and Jeff Kings post
15. Re: Integrating 802.11b with APRS
16. APRSD aborting with weather messages.
17. Talking APRS Weather Station
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Subject: One short of a dozen...
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 00:57:30 -0400
X-Message-Number: 1
Since posting the issue of the backup server, I have had 11 people email me
with a variation of "you should...".
In an attempt to head off more of these personal emails, I want to
emphasize I will not be doing anything, other providing you with the
notification of the problem, and of course providing the support to whoever
ultimately is going to make the server work.
It is up to you all to come up with some sort of solution to this problem,
and implement it...
Steve K4HG
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Subject: SAR mapping support
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:16:43 -0700
X-Message-Number: 2
I'm pondering APRS client options for SAR use, and I'd like some input.
UI-View32 seems to be the overwhelming favorite, but I'm having trouble
setting up a convincing demo with it. Its native map mangement seems
primitive. I've got to pre-load it with tons of detailed maps, and the only
way to navigate them is from a drop-down list. I can see coverage outlines,
but I don't see any way to select a map from the outline.
Pre-generated maps aren't really an option anyway. We've got over 2,700
square miles to cover in detail at least equivalent to a 7.5" topo quad. I
can load raw quads, but that's not terribly useful without a way to zoom in
or out. Integration with Street Atlas only works with outdated and
unavailable versions. Haven't used pmap, but I've heard there are problems
with image size and besides, it's mostly topos we're after. The UI-Terra
program is useful for grabbing one-off images of a particular area, but only
if you're online.
Now, Xastir has support for a wide variety of formats and provides zoom
features, and it seems to be able to automatically select which map sources
to use for a given area and zoom level. Still, its chooser interface is
limited. And of course it's written for Linux - I've never tried to get it
to run on Cygwin and I'm not thrilled about having to try. Having a
separate Linux laptop just isn't an option.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I've got some 20 or 30 gigabytes of maps -
mostly DRGs and DOQQs - that cover this county with the required resolution,
and fitting them on a modern laptop is no problem, but I don't have anything
that'll let a user easily start from a county-wide view, zoom in, and switch
from street view to topo view to photo view without having to manually
select images and maps by name.
Is there ANYTHING that can do this in an even remotely user-friendly manner?
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Another version of APRS
From: WB4GQK@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:39:29 EDT
X-Message-Number: 3
Hi All,
There is a very interesting version of APRS being employed in the North
Atlantic Rally NAR, aboard 18 private Trawlers. At the present time they
have reached Bermuda and are preparing to leave for the Azores. Each vessel
is equipped with a Skymate 100 system. You can see the basic setup
including the TNC by going to:
http://www.skymate.com/
Their positions are being reported automatically twice a day via SatPhone.
You can track their individual and collective positions by going to:
http://abaco.pwr.com/NAR2004/tracker/
The marine tracking chart of the North Atlantic is impressive.
Since I'd rather fight than switch I'm sticking with my WinAPRS HF system
aboard my sailboat.
Jim wb4gqk
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Subject: Re: .mps extension
From: n2iph@comcast.net
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:53:28 +0000
X-Message-Number: 4
(.mps extension)
That's the Microsoft Pocket Streets file format. You need to have Pocket
Strets installed on a PDA to view it. You can create pocket streets maps
from MS Strrets and Trips on your PC or from MS Mappoint aand a couple
other MS mapping programs over the past couple years.
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Subject: Re: SAR mapping support
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:09:36 -0700
X-Message-Number: 5
Scott,
I went through this same thought process a few months back. To make it
short, the APRS applications are NOT mapping applications. If you want a
mapping application, get away from the APRS.
To have to screw around with downloading maps and getting this and that
together to make this all work is not cutting it.
Get a mapping application that will do what you want and spend the money for
it. There are a few low cost mapping applications available. You'll still
be stuck with map data errors but unless you build your own maps, that's
just the way it is.
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: RE: SAR mapping support
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:33:44 -0700
X-Message-Number: 6
We've got mapping applications. Good ones. But nothing that'll plot APRS
positions.
I had a thought the other day... it'd be kind of fun - though maybe not
practical - to mount a scanning laser above the mapping table, and set up an
APRS app to plot stations directly on a paper 7.5" quad. It ought to LOOK
cool, at least. =]
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: SAR mapping support
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:11:18 -0700
X-Message-Number: 7
Hi Scott.
For most searches, I doubt you will need the full 7.5" Quad map very often.
It is my opinion that instead of trying to bring maps to APRS, authors need
to take APRS to the maps. Garmin's Rino is the closest to getting this
right. They have the mapping built into the GPS units now they've
integrated the tracking into it.
The trick with the Rino's is to get 1 rino up high at the CP on a pole and
feed the serial cable down the pole or hack it and put a high gain antenna
up high (this only needs to be RX only). Then, as needed, poll it which
downloads the data needed to track units in the field.
APRS has fallen so far behind the curve with mapping, it may never catch up.
If someone could take existing mapping software, like delorme Topo or
better, and figure out how to plot APRS objects on that, then I think you'd
be getting somewhere. Pmaps and UI_View32 are the closest thing there is
for seamless zooming, etc., but it's not a topo.
Now, on the last search I used APRS, I used the USGS DOQ's with UI-Terra and
UI-View32. That gave me an excellent point of view of the search area.
However, due to APRS limitations, I could not use this combo for my final
report, simply because I could not put a plot where it needed to go. And,
that should not be a magic thing to do...but apparently it is. I could do
this with a pencil on the map.
Since then, APRS has not been used for man tracking and I turned my
attention to Moving Maps and only using APRS for tracking the vehicles I
have using NMEA format on the TinyTrackers and the compressed posits on the
OpenTrak.
I might add the my MM capable GPS's have the entire county loaded in them
with tracks that have been added for roads and trails that do not exist in
the USGS maps. As time goes on, out database of trails and roads just keeps
growing. We have 6 for the Team Leaders and 3 vehicles equipped with more
coming, 4 vehicles APRS capable with more coming.....I just wished people
would stop bidding against me on ebay!!!
Jim, WA6OFT
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Subject: Re: SAR mapping support
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:42:53 -0700
X-Message-Number: 8
>If someone could take existing mapping software, like delorme Topo or
>better, and figure out how to plot APRS objects on that, then I think you'd
>be getting somewhere. Pmaps and UI_View32 are the closest thing there is
>for seamless zooming, etc., but it's not a topo.
There are mapping engines out there that'll give you access to
professional data sets, but they're not cheap. DeLorme's XMap might be
useful - it starts at only $200, without any data sets.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: SAR mapping support
From: Bill Herrmann <bherrman@spro.net>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:57:18 -0600
X-Message-Number: 9
At 10:11 AM 5/29/2004 -0700, Spider wrote:
>If someone could take existing mapping software, like delorme Topo or
>better, and figure out how to plot APRS objects on that, then I think you'd
>be getting somewhere.
It's actually fairly easy to do this with existing programs though not
completely automatic. I've got a topo map with all my local digis on it.
Here's what you do...
Using APRS+SA get the APRS objects you want displayed. (i.e. all the
searchers or all the digis)
From within StreetAtlas select the "Export to TopoUSA" option on the files
menu.
From within TopoUSA (or one of the more detailed variants) open the
exported file.
Voila! You have APRS objects on your topo map.
As you can see there are manual steps, but it's fairly quick and painless.
I'm told that there are a couple interface pieces to topo maps floating
around but I've not seen them actually work.
With UI-View's plug-in architecture it should be relatively
straight-forward to build a plug-in between UI-View and a mapping
application that has a documented API. Somebody just needs to identify a
commonly use SAR mapping application with an API and find a developer
willing to do the plug-in. What mapping applications are SAR people using?
Bill
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