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ZL3AI > APRDIG 06.03.04 13:10l 252 Lines 9230 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 2965-ZL3AI
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Mar 04, 7/14
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Sent: 040306/1043Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:20454 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:2965-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Tyler Allison" <tyler@allisonhouse.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:46:42 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 48
>Aautomated wall of shame.
Take this one step further. When building the wall of shame create an ACL
list that digi managers can easily import in on a daily basis to 'BLOCK'
those offenders.
It's sorta like the RBL system on the Internet for spam.
-Tyler
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:57:40 -0500
X-Message-Number: 49
Jeff,
How about this one...
xxxxxx-10>APRS,WIDE4*,qAo,KD7QOT-1
This digipeater is up at 1200' AGL.
I've talked to both the trustee AND the guy who sets it up. His response
was "Just Because". Over here, that digipeater is being seen in at least
three states... He was I-Gated in Maryland... roughly 250 miles away...
WELL outside the ALOHA circle. He has done similar tricks on other setups
and for some reason others listen to him.
Eric
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Subject: Re: OEM GPS modules
From: Adam Pirkle <adam@pirkle.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:58:19 -0600
X-Message-Number: 50
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 03:13:27PM -0800, Scott Miller said the following:
>I'm starting to think about my next OpenTracker design, and the plan is to
>allow for easy integration with an OEM GPS module. I'm considering the
>Laipac TF10, and I'm wondering if anyone out there has had any experience
>with this receiver. It's a bit bigger than I'd like, but it's not terribly
>expensive, and it runs on 5 volts, unlike the Oncore series.
Disclaimer: I've never used any OEM GPS modules.
Why not use the Laipac UV-40 instead? The UV-40 is something like 1/4
the size of the TF10, and other than that, I don't see any significant
differences in the specs. The smaller unit still accepts an external
antenna, you just need an adapter for the surface-mount antenna jack.
sparkfun.com sells the TF10 for $xx.xx and the UV-40 for $xx.xx, so it
would seem that the price difference is almost negligible.
I've never used either of these units, but I was toying with the idea
of buying a UV-40 to use with the opentracker/TT3.
Offtopic: Are there any small OEM-type 2m radios that could be used
with one of these gps modules and the upcoming surface-mount tt3 to
create a VERY small tracker?
-Adam
KE5AGK
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot! and flush twice
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:00:41 -0500
X-Message-Number: 51
Actually, negate the numbers after the seventh digi... It would be seen
after the seventh digi but not repeated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christensen, Eric
Bill,
7-7 can easily make 111 packets... You aren't thinking like a packet...
Lets say that every digipeater will send its' packet to three others...
Original packet sent out at WIDE7-7... One packet.
Path After # of Digi's Seen
Number of Packets Total
First Digi - WIDE7-6 3 2
packets.
Second Digi - WIDE7-5 9 11
packets.
Third Digi - WIDE7-4 27 38
packets.
Fourth Digi - WIDE7-3 81 119
packets.
Fifth Digi - WIDE7-2 243 362
packets.
Sixth Digi - WIDE7-1 729 1091
packets.
Seventh Digi - WIDE7 2187 3278 packets.
I think these numbers are correct...
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:59:20 -0500
X-Message-Number: 52
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:36:18 -0500, David VanHorn wrote:
>>This, coupled with a drive to modernize digi's (akin to the move to
>>144.39) I believe would be the best application of resources.
>
>My memory of the move to 4.39 was that it wasn't all that traumatic.
>Some crystal changes, others just had to turn a couple knobs.
EXACTLY. It wasn't traumatic, and updating a digipeater is far less of a
issue then replacing a radio, crystal or retuning cavities that the move to
144.39 required.
I wonder if TAPR is willing to get behind this effort like they did the
144.39 effort?
On a related subject, I'm wanting to burn some UIDIGI EPROM's, but my old DOS
based EPROM programmer won't work on the newer machines. Can you recommend a
cheap EPROM burner? I need to do 27C256's, 512's mostly although some 1meg
parts might come up.
>Does MFJ still offer their data radio on the old freq?
They will sell it to you with any xtal, but a quick look at their web page
shows on 144.39 and 145.01
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-8621X2
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-8621
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:04:48 -0500
X-Message-Number: 53
That is what the OO's are for. Granted, they have no enforcement power, but
it should reduce the amount of people that are listening to him. He is doing
it just for a ego trip anyways, and if you make that ego trip negative, it
will have the desired result.
BTW, why xxxxx out the callsign? I assume your telling the truth here, and
making his ego trip negative (i.e. peer pressure) might have the desired
response.
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 03/04/2004
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:57:40 -0500, Christensen, Eric wrote:
>Jeff, How about this one...
>
>xxxxxx-10>APRS,WIDE4*,qAo,KD7QOT-1
>
>This digipeater is up at 1200' AGL.
>
>I've talked to both the trustee AND the guy who sets it up. His
>response was "Just Because".
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:12:10 -0500
X-Message-Number: 54
I xxxxxxed out the callsign because I didn't feel like getting into yet
another conversation with this guy over this thing. He has written me off
and quite frankly I don't care anymore. I have tried to educate others but
I still end up with the same crud as I started with. BTW, his destination
address leaves something to be desired... I would really like for people to
clean that up as well. Working on a project to use the destination
addresses and 'APRS' will not be one of the reported values.
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot! and flush twice
From: "Matt Werner" <kb0kqa@arrl.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:23:35 -0600
X-Message-Number: 55
Eric,
I don't think so.
To transmit the number of packets you claim (3278), you first off need 3278
different digis. Are there that many even in the US?
This also assumes that each digi that transmits has three other digis that
hear only that one. Any overlapping will dramatically reduce the number.
Any less than three digis within range will also dramatically reduce the
number.
The other thing to remember here is that even a WIDE7-7 packet will only
result in 7 transmissions (ideally). Each digi, if set up correctly, will
transmit as the same time as the others. For example, when a packet is
received as WIDE7-6 by 3 different digis, those three digis will (should)
transmit at the same time. Granted, some will pause because of other local
traffic on the frequency, incorrectly setup digis, etc. Say each packet
takes 1/2 second (for arguement's sake - I'm sure someone can refine the
number, but the point stands). When transmitted by the WIDE7-7 you use 1/2
second. The 7-6 uses another 1/2 second (for a total of 1 second). By the
time it is transmitted as WIDE7 you used about 4 seconds of air time.
This is much too much air time for one station, and it uses the air time up
in all directions, often for hundreds of miles.
I don't argue that WIDE7-7 is excessive in most areas, only that it's
sometime it's effects are exaggerated.
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Subject: RE: stir up the path pot! and flush twice
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:31:38 -0500
X-Message-Number: 56
Matt,
You are correct. This is an ideal number (see later correction to 1091 not
3278). I can safely say that not that many packets will be created because
of collisions on the network and sometimes a digi will be a "dead end".
But, I just did the math to make a point. That is a lot of packets out
there. Plus, the Kantronics firmware doesn't do the dup blocking like it
should so you could end up with packets flowing back (I've seen that
before). Also, the user might be in view of more than one digi which could
make it more interesting. I've sat in the Raleigh-Durham area using a path
of RELAY,WIDE2-2 on 5 watts and had my packet come back to my station three
or four times (or more a few times!!!). I wish I had my computer hooked up
to my D700 when that happened and will do it again when I do.
Eric
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