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ZL3AI > APRDIG 05.03.04 13:08l 278 Lines 10787 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Balloon article on ARRL.org
From: "Rochte, Robert" <rrochte@gpacademy.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:07:54 -0500
X-Message-Number: 37
Our recent solar tetroon got a nice write-up on the ARRL web site today:
"Solar-Heated Balloon Carrying APRS Travels from Michigan to New Hampshire"
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/03/03/103/?nc=1
73,
Robert
KC8UCH
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:24:27 -0500
X-Message-Number: 38
On 3/3/04 at 3:00 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>As far as complexity goes, I find APRSWORLD's GUI more intuitive then
>FINDU's, and he has already implemented a less bandwidth greedy approach, as
>suggested.
If you are not aware, the single map interface is nothing new on findu,
I've used it on certain places, most notably the Baker to Vegas page
(b2v.findu.com) for a couple years now. However, for the mainstream pages,
it is not what my users seem to want.
>So I'm not sure complexity has anything to do with it. You just
>don't want to do it that way, for whatever reason, which is your decision.
Not for whatever reason, for the reason that it is what my users have told
me they want it this way. Believe me, there is nothing shy about the
typical findU user, I get many emails every day, I read and respond to
every one (though sometimes, like now I get backed up a couple hundred
responses, though I still scan every one when it arrives), and this
feedback is what I base decisions like this upon. Already since this thread
started I've had 2 people say they would like a single map interface on
find.cgi, and 13 asking me to leave things as they are.
Steve K4HG
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: "Matt Werner" <kb0kqa@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:37:25 -0600
X-Message-Number: 39
I'll chime in here.
My preference would be to leave things as is on find find.cgi page. I like
the ability to view the multiple maps for stations and to have others
(family and such) be able to tell where I am, both in general and in detail,
from a single page. There are many times where I only need one map, the
more detailed map, but overall, I like it the way it is.
If the bandwidth or CPU time to generate these multiple maps and serve them
to me becomes an issue, I trust that Steve (or other powers that be) will
reduce the number of maps served.
I will say that with the new maps, the middle map is zoomed in too far. It
would be most useful if it were zoomed out a bit more and still included
road names where possible. I know this has been mentioned here multiple
times (I mentioned it a few weeks ago myself). In my estimation, Jim's
"county" view should be zoomed out a little bit more, have the road names
added (or at least the major names), and be used as the middle map.
My $0.02 anyway. No, I'm not one of the 13 Steve is referring to.
73 - Matt
KB0KQA
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: "Rich Garcia" <k4gps@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:38:02 -0500
X-Message-Number: 40
I got to agree here the way I use FINDU myself lends to multiple maps.
1) When I am at a PC other than my own (work/friend/family member) and I
have no other mapping software ava.
2) When I am searching for someone in an unknown part of the country. If a
local during the summer months is far away I will type in his callsign to
check on their progress or plans (using the status text). A icon with 2 or 3
visible streets does not tell me very much but the next level up will give
me an idea where he is or if I am REALLY clueless about the state the final
level will leave nothing to question where in the state or country he is.
The information provided in text format "2.2 miles from BongoBongo, WA" or
whatever is also good but only if I know where the anchor point is located.
If I am home I use Xastir/Tiger Maps or UI-View with Precision Mapping so I
have no need to use FINDU so everyone else can have a few "extra hits on my
tab"!
Rich
K4GPS
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Subject: Stir up the path pot
From: "Dennis Hudson, N2LBT" <n2lbt@n2lbt.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:43:36 -0500
X-Message-Number: 41
I'm wondering if people are making recommendations to their local users
as to path statements and what are those recommendations. In upstate NY
we have populations centers along river valleys with digis on "hills"
in between many of them.
My recommendations are usually the following which BTW will get you to
no less than 2 igates, and 2-3 states.
Home stations - LOCALDIGI,WIDE or Max LOCALDIGI,WIDE2-2
Traveling Mobile RELAY,WIDE or RELAY,WIDE2
Local Mobile DIGI,WIDE
Digis 10min DIRECT
59m WIDE
There seems to be a growing population of SOMETHING,WIDE3-3 with a few
WIDE4 and WIDE5s. Is this some default on a client program? It just
seems too high. And it's killing our local lans. A path like this in
Central Mass will literally cover 8 States, 2 Countries, 10 igates, and
millions in population. What is the point? If you're thinking, "nah
RELAY,WIDE3-3 won't get out of my area" I invite you to look at my TNC
output anytime the station is a 5/8 base station on the roof of a
single story building in Albany. telnet://n2lbt.com:14580 You'll find
that most of the stations are >150 miles.
Dennis
Dennis Hudson, N2LBT
sysop aprsdaly
Albany, NY
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:48:18 -0500
X-Message-Number: 42
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:24:27 -0500, Steve Dimse wrote:
>Already since this thread started I've had 2 people say they would
>like a single map interface on find.cgi,
Then can access that at:
http://db.aprsworld.net/datamart/search.php
>and 13 asking me to leave things as they are.
But the real question for these folks is do they understand the source of
this data, current which you are getting for free, has suggested a more
bandwidth economical way of doing things? Or are you saying they just don't
give a damn?
There is no such thing as a free lunch, and that includes bandwidth, even if
it is not your own.
As usual, we will need to agree to disagree.
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:53:42 -0500
X-Message-Number: 43
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:37:25 -0600, Matt Werner wrote:
>I'll chime in here.
>
>My preference would be to leave things as is on find find.cgi page.
And in saying this, you understand that one of the sources of these maps,
which is not Steve, has suggested a more bandwidth economical way to do this?
Assuming the affirmative, at least I now know why at the all you can eat
buffets, they have a sign saying you can't take the food home.
Don't care about what you or FINDU does, I'm just stating in general there is
no such thing as a free lunch and ham's really need to drop this welfare "the
world owe's me a living" attitude.
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Subject: RE: Why we wanted the data
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:09:40 -0500
X-Message-Number: 44
Okay... Well, with that being said, I think that after looking at the data
we should consider those that are using WinAPRS in the decisions. I wonder
if we could ask for an upgrade to fix the current major bugs in the WinAPRS
software? Even if the software doesn't function exactly right, if the items
that make problems for the rest of the APRS users were fixed (i.e.
Compressed format, decoding Mic-E packets and sending it all to the IS, etc)
then we wouldn't have to worry about that percentage of users being
non-compliant.
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Needham [mailto:needhame@yucca.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 15:02
To: TAPR APRS Special Interest Group
Subject: [aprssig] Why we wanted the data
At 08:06 AM 3/3/2004, Christensen, Eric wrote:
>I have posted the results of the Survey and the Destination Stats.
>PLEASE READ the associated text that goes with the graphs BEFORE
>commenting on them. I think I did okay with the disclaimers on each.
>Those with more legal skills could probably do better.
>
>http://personal.ecu.edu/christensene/Client%20Software.htm
>
>Now I forget why we were even getting the data! :)
We were discussing compressed format and which clients do or do
not work properly with compressed format. See below...
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Subject: Re: NWS Radar trouble
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:21:25 -0500
X-Message-Number: 45
On 3/3/04 at 4:48 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>But the real question for these folks is do they understand the source of
>this data, current which you are getting for free, has suggested a more
>bandwidth economical way of doing things? Or are you saying they just don't
>give a damn?
I switched the maps from findU to Jim's server on an experimental basis at
his request. He then said the load was not causing a problem, and I left
them as they were. To this point, he still has not given any indication of
a problem. At any point, as soon as I get a message from him stating that
these are causing him any problems I will stop using them.
The load on his server is only going to go down from here. I've already
switched the Canadian requests away from him. APRS Map Manager will soon be
able to provide a better alternative for Europe and South America, and at
that point those requests will no long go to him.
Once Jim releases the geo file generator, I will be doing my own plotting,
and can implement a caching system within the APRS MM to further decrease
the load upon his server.
Finally, I'm still hoping he will help others place backup map servers
online for the US maps, I do not like being dependent on a single piece of
hardware for such a large part of findU's maps. By sharing the load this
will take away any load issue he may have.
For those that wish a single map, Jim's excellent APRSworld site is
available as you point out. I'm providing the best service I can to my
users, under very adverse conditions during the last month, and I think it
is disingenuous to try to make this into more of an issue than it really
is.
Steve K4HG
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