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ZL3AI > APRDIG 27.02.04 15:48l 311 Lines 9060 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Feb 25, 4/6
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: APRS Destination Holes
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:44:30 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29
>>>"Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU> 2/25/04 9:27:44 AM
>>>
>I'm missing definitions for the following:
>APRS(followed by letter) APRSdos???
APRSdos all use APR8xx since I am at version 800+ for the last many
years...
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Subject: Re: APRS Client Survey
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:04:06 -0800
X-Message-Number: 30
What I meant was, does the station count list every callsign+ssid as a
separate station, or just callsign?
>From the query Jim sent me, it looks like it's every callsign+ssid.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: Uncompressed vs Compressed formats
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:38:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 31
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>>It's been in the spec forever though. Update your APRS software or
>>switch to a different one that handles it.
>
>EXCEPT please dont use compressed objects. The Kenwood
>displays them with the callsign of the sending station and not
>the name of the object. Thus, the information intended to be conveyed
>to the end user does not show up where the sender expects it to be
>seen...
What about compressed items? Compressed objects/items with weather info?
These are all allowed by the spec. I for one think that APRS programs and
hardware should be updated over time to recognize these (and generate them
if it makes sense for any particular instance of client/hardware). If one
has to replace their Alinco or Kenwood radio due to non-upgradeable
firmware at some point, so be it. They knew the risks when they bought it,
or should have.
Besides, you can think of compressed mode as partial stealth mode. A lot of
people can't see where you are!
I did some experiments many years ago when I wanted to play with mobile
APRS but didn't have a TNC capable of it. I used an HC11 microcontroller
board connected to an AEA PK-88 and my GPS.
Starting out, I sent full APRS text packets. I had _some_ success. I
switched to compressed packets, but back then very few clients could decode
them, and findu didn't have support for them either. I switched to Mic-E
and ran that for a while.
Uncompressed: Packets were long, often didn't make it through the digi's,
but all clients could decode them.
Compressed: Packets were much shorter. Made it through the digi's much
more often. Most clients could not decode them (back then only Xastir and
APRSdos I think).
Mic-E: Packets were shorter yet. Made it through most digi's, but some
igate's expanded them incorrectly or TNC's were set improperly and dropped
the unprintable characters in the packet, corrupting it. We still see Mic-E
corruption from time to time because TNC's are filtering out the
unprintable characters before sending them on to the computer.
Summary: The shorter the packet, the better my track looked. Unfortunately
there was a price to pay for both compressed and Mic-E packets (packets not
decoded or corrupted). I was looking for the perfect solution but it
wasn't out there. I stuck with Mic-E and later switched to TinyTrak's
w/Mic-E.
Nowadays more clients decode the compressed packets, but not all. Heck,
some still don't decode items, compressed objects/items, or objects/items
with weather info in them! All of those have been in the spec since it was
ratified.
Another issue has to do with case sensitivity of object/item names. We went
through some hassles with that a while ago between the Xastir and UI-View
clients. The spec allows case-sensitivity, so you can have Ambulance,
AMBULANCE, ambulance, AmBuLaNcE objects all on your screen at one time. I
think that's Roger's favorite example against case-sensitivity for the
names. What are the current thoughts on that? Xastir keeps them all
separate.
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: FW: APRS Client Survey
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@yucca.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:53:58 -0700
X-Message-Number: 32
THIRD try -- Lyris doesn't like RTF or something else...
At 10:02 PM 2/24/2004, Steve Dimse wrote:
>On 2/24/04 at 9:29 PM Earl Needham <needhame1@yucca.net> sent:
>
>> I'm not sure if this is what Steve meant or not, but using the
>>above link, I get the following result:
>>
>Close, but you would also combine the different version of the same
>program, and
>then match the abbreviation with the client name.
>
>Steve
OK! I think I have it, with perhaps a few minor errors. Following is from
the 1,000 packet link posted yesterday. Steve, Bob, and whoever else --
take a look, and if it looks good, ship me the BIG set of packets mentioned
earlier and I'll run them through the program I built.
Earl
client count
APRS 390
UIVIEW 32-BIT APPS 111
WinAPRS 88
EXPERIMENTAL 77
BEACON 55
APRS+ 31
APRSD 31
DIGI_NED 28
UIdigi 19
KPC-3 11
EXP TRKR BY PE1RXQ 9
APRSmax 8
"Xaprs, Xastir, etc" 8
APRSdos 7
UIVIEW 16-BIT APPS 7
WX 6
ID 5
"MACAPRS, ETC" 5
GPSLK 4
GPSMV 4
APRSWX 3
CQ 3
GPS 3
GPSLV 3
"Xastir (old, see APX)" 3
APRSMD 2
APRSW 2
D700 2
FIRENET 2
TinyTrack II 2
"UIView, etc" 2
VOZELJ 2
WIDE 2
5Q2UR7 1
AP0922 1
APRLX 1
APRQRL 1
APRS37 1
APRS58 1
APRS65 1
APRS66 1
APRS82 1
APRS86 1
APRSM 1
APRSOE 1
"APRSdata,APRSdr" 1
APRWX 1
EC4S8U 1
GPSLM 1
GPSPP 1
GREENO 1
N9IJ-10 1
R9SS2T 1
RELAY 1
S1RX6U 1
S2TY9X 1
S6UR3T 1
S7QRPT 1
S8PS4R 1
S9QQTY 1
SP1S7R 1
SR5Y4U 1
SS5V0Y 1
ST0S1X 1
STUR2X 1
SV5V7T 1
SVQT9Y 1
SX1R3Z 1
SXQWTQ 1
SYPT0W 1
SYSW46 1
T2PS2R 1
T3SX8R 1
T4PQ9X 1
T6UU1W 1
T7RQX3 1
T8RUVQ 1
T9QQUS 1
THD7 1
TR0Q9U 1
TS0W5R 1
TS5Q99 1
TU4QXY 1
TV0R6W 1
TV4RYV 1
TVRRX3 1
TX4XY8 1
TXTWW1 1
TY5TS1 1
U1RWUP 1
UIDIGI 1
US0PW3 1
WINDOWS CE 1
WX0GLD-10 1
WXGMP 1
WXIPQ 1
WXOBK 1
WXPCP 1
Sorry for the formatting, Lyris won't let me use the proper
font/typeface to get it all lined up...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DIGIpeater TOCALL Standard please
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:13:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 33
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>The database at:
>>http://db.aprsworld.net/tmp/destinations.out
>
>Shows the single largest is "APRS" at 3271.
>Which can be just about anything (usually Digis).
Just as a rough check sort of thing: How could digi's be the highest
number? I have no doubt that digi's can be _some_ percentage of that 3271,
but not a high percentage. Not when the other client numbers are so low
comparatively. There must be a lot of clients running with "APRS" for some
reason.
There's something like one digi per user according to the numbers. Doesn't
make sense.
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Uncompressed vs Compressed formats
From: "Byon Garrabrant" <byon@byon.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:33:50 -0800
X-Message-Number: 34
TinyTrak3 has the base-91 conversion code inside it. It is used for MIC-E
altitudes. I didn't encode the positions in the compressed form simply
because there didn't seem to be an interest in having that.
Byon
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Subject: Re: DIGIpeater TOCALL Standard please
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:06:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 35
On 2/25/04 at 9:13 AM Curt, WE7U <archer@eskimo.com> sent:
>Just as a rough check sort of thing: How could digi's be the
>highest number? I have no doubt that digi's can be _some_
>percentage of that 3271, but not a high percentage. Not when the
>other client numbers are so low comparatively. There must be a lot
>of clients running with "APRS" for some reason.
>
>There's something like one digi per user according to the numbers.
>Doesn't make sense.
I wouldn't call APRS digi, but rather unclassifiable. Probably the largest
number of these are CW stations, which generally use the APRS tocall. I
suspect there are a lot of other uses of APRS...
Steve K4HG
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