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ZL3AI > APRDIG 20.11.03 22:14l 220 Lines 8581 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Nov 13, 14/14
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: The wrap up
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:20:24 -0500
X-Message-Number: 77
Steve Dimse wrote:
>>On the subject of Band-of-Origination and Network Personality flags, here's a
>>perspective that you may have not considered: APRS is more than what happens
on>>144.39 MHz. Once you realize that, you also must realize that APRS has
grown>>beyond it's initial purpose. As such, new needs emerge. Not addressing
them
>>begs APRS to fracture into incompatible parts.
>>
>Once again, I am very explicitly acknowledging this, and have done so since I
>first propsed the user defined format back in the days when I was in the APRS
>WG. I am responsible for a mechanism that allows people to send whatever data
>they choose on APRS.
Your proposal causes others to use both "PHG" and "{XX". (I would want
APRS software that decodes PHG to do so, and suppliment this information
with more in the {XX area).
This quite unnecessarily adds to the length of a frame. At 31 baud, this
is significant. Can people send anything they want? Sure. Is it
advantageous to do so? No.
>It seems like you are just trying to pick a fight here...
<giggling> I'm not trying to pick a fight, Steve. I really wish you would
stop impuning my motives. I can sense your frustration with this thread.
It's probably because I'm having a difficult time getting you to see that
the APRS world is so much more than what happens on 144.39. Until you can,
none of what I say makes sense.
Even so, all of this is moot. The APRS protocol is ruled by WB4APR and Bob
has already said he has no interest in addressing the needs I've outlined.
Again, it's sad, but nobody said the real world is always a fair and happy
place. :)
I'm off to find a more productive use for my time.
Truly best wishes,
Ev, W2EV
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Subject: Re: Station attributes -was- RE: APRS Icon statistics
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:39:46 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 78
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Steve Dimse wrote:
>>Steve, None of the rest of your response below has anything to do with the
>>TOXIC CLOUD OBJECT which was the topic of your original post.
>
>Bob, this just proves you do not listen. I never once mentioned a toxic
>cloud object, my point all along was to try to show the different ways
>APRS is used by PEOPLE. Please go back and re-read my posts on this
>topic, and if, after actually reading them, you have a comment, feel
>free to re-post.
Sorry, I was talking about OBJECTS. I assumed when you replied about an
operator watching a Toxic Cloud and using APRS that you were referring to
what I was referring to, that is, an OBJECT reprsenting that Toxic Cloud
"on" APRS.. Seemed to me what we were talking about...
Just shows-to-go-ya how two people can have difficulty communicating when
they BOTH think they are talking about the same thing, but they arent.
Thats why we must have all APRS programs present the same information data
set to the end user in a consistent manner if we expect the end users to
be able to communicate with integrity.
And this -doesn't- mean displaying everything about everything and
cluttering up the map to make it unusable. Which is your point, and an
EXCELLENT one... What I mean by this is that when two people see
the -same- ICON representing the SAME thing, no matter what else is on or
not-on the screen, they should see the same information content about
that ICON. That is, an ICON and its attributes.
Again, Most clients display some attributes (HEADING, SPEED, and OLD for
example) . We just need more of them to display more of the fundamental
attributes so that everyone is seeing the same thing... (and I am not
saying HOW, just WHAT needs to be displayed)...
Thanks for your patience...
Bob, WB4APR
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Subject: Re: The wrap up
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:58:57 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 79
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Ev Tupis (W2EV) wrote:
>Even so, all of this is moot. The APRS protocol is ruled by WB4APR and
>Bob has already said he has no interest in addressing the needs I've
>outlined.
Ev, it is your tendency to distort facts and bugg-the-heck out of people
that results in most of your threads becoming toxic. I never said the
above. Here is what I said:
* It may be a great concept, but there are SO MANY more important issues
* that have to be fixed, I don't want to just keep adding bells and
* whistles while we don't even have the fundamentals agreed to by many...
To which Ev responded:
>I'm off to find a more productive use for my time.
Ev, nobody rules APRS. APRS is a product of many authors. Anyone is
welcome to contribute. If you have great ideas, then write some software
and lets see if it flies. But if you spend all your time bugging other
people who are overloaded and far too busy with your idea-of-the-day, then
surely you can understand that they soon turn-off because it is not YOUR
time that is being consumed but theirs...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: FW: [amsat-bb] ISS Active
From: "Eric Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:31 -0500
X-Message-Number: 80
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-AMSAT-BB@AMSAT.Org [mailto:owner-AMSAT-BB@AMSAT.Org] On
Behalf Of Sil - ZL2CIA
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 17:40
To: amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org
Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS Active
Hi,
The digi onboard the ISS apperas to be active again.
I heard the ISS transmitting the packets below, at 2 minute intervals. I
wasn't able to pass any APRS packets through the digipeater, and nor could
I connect to the PMS.
Sil - ZL2CIA (ex PA3HIL)
Fm RS0ISS To CQ Via SGATE <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[11:25:33]
>ARISS - International Space Station
Fm RS0ISS To CQ Via SGATE <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[11:27:33]
>ARISS - International Space Station
Fm RS0ISS To CQ Via SGATE <UI pid=F0 Len=36 >[11:29:33]
>ARISS - International Space Station
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: The wrap up
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:38:29 -0500
X-Message-Number: 81
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>Even so, all of this is moot. The APRS protocol is ruled by WB4APR and
>>Bob has already said he has no interest in addressing the needs I've
>>outlined.
>
>Ev, it is your tendency to distort facts and bugg-the-heck out of people
>that results in most of your threads becoming toxic. I never said the
>above. Here is what I said:
>
>*It may be a great concept, but there are SO MANY more important issues
>*that have to be fixed, I don't want to just keep adding bells and
>*whistles while we don't even have the fundamentals agreed to by many...
Yet, you recently desired a PHG-probe and it became a reality within days.
You don't seem to abide by your own principles.
What's to distort?
Henry Ford is quoted as saying, "You can have any color car you want, as
long as it's black". Your mantra in APRS is similar.
Maybe I "bugg-the-heck out of people" because I'm not satisfied with
"black" and I feel comfortable saying so. If that "buggs the heck" out of
you, then I have the same reply that you had for me after I redesigned the
PropNET protocol to allow Kenwood radios to work with it only to find out
that those crappy things didn't follow the APRS CQ* spec: "bummer". You
have no idea of the rage that your answer engendered.
YOU have wasted more of MY time persuing some great convergence between the
APRS and PropNET specs than I ever have of any author on this list. In
fact, those that DID develop to PropNET needs have their products still
used in that community! APRS over PSK31 or PSK63 anyone?
Your Grid-in-To protocol got retired (after I developed to it) to become
[GG$$gg (which I redeveloped to) and then you retired that in favor of
>GG$$gg which I again redeveloped to. PropNET's Config-in-To became your
CQ*-in-To (which the Kenwoods don't decode correctly), then became
PHGabcdefg/ (only to find out that you have no time to address PropNET's
PHG needs). ARGHHHHHHHH!
And you say *I* "bugg-the-heck out of people"?
Shame on me for trying to fit-in with the myopic APRS protocol. I shall
not make that mistake again.
QRU,
Evhen Tupis, W2EV
My vacation begins; your final. I will not comment further, nor will I see
your reply.
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