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ZL3AI > APRDIG 03.11.03 19:32l 238 Lines 9338 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: KPC3+
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:16:09 -0500
X-Message-Number: 33
At 01:58 PM 11/1/2003 -0800, Scott Miller wrote:
>My only complaint with Kantronics is that they don't even sell the firmware
>for the older hardware. The only reason for not making it available is to
>force users into buying new hardware. They could at the very least post the
>binary image with a disclaimer that no support will be provided. But if
>you've got a KPC-3 with older firmware, right now you have no legal options
>except to buy a KPC-3+.
The hardware is different, It's not just software.
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Subject: RE: KPC3+
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:40:49 -0800
X-Message-Number: 34
I understand. Maybe I don't NEED a KPC-3+ and just want to get the latest
firmware for the KPC-3 that's ALREADY been written. They won't even sell
it, because they can make more money selling the KPC-3+ hardware. Which is
why I don't expect them to change anything - providing the firmware for the
KPC-3 would remove the incentive for at least some users to upgrade
hardware.
Scott
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Subject: RE: KPC3+
From: Neil Johnson <njohnsn@njohnsn.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:34:42 -0600
X-Message-Number: 35
On Saturday 01 November 2003 03:58 pm, Scott Miller wrote:
>My only complaint with Kantronics is that they don't even sell the firmware
>for the older hardware. The only reason for not making it available is to
>force users into buying new hardware. They could at the very least post
>the binary image with a disclaimer that no support will be provided. But
>if you've got a KPC-3 with older firmware, right now you have no legal
>options except to buy a KPC-3+.
Ever consider the possibility that the new firmware may not work in older
KPC-3+'s because of design changes (new parts to replace end of life ones,
quality/cost/manufacturability improvements) ?
Actually, I'm just happy they still actually make TNC's.
As for charging $50 dollars for the EEPROM upgrade. I'm reminded of the
following story (copied from http://www.protrainco.com/essays/tellstory.htm#7
)
Charles Steinmetz, the famous German-American electrical engineer and
inventor, was known as the "Electrical Wizard" during his long career at
General Electric. After he retired, GE brought him back as a consultant to
determine what had caused a breakdown in a complex systems of machines. The
cause of the breakdown baffled all GE's experts. Steinmetz spent some time
walking around and testing the various parts of the machine complex. Finally,
he took out of his pocket a piece of chalk and marked an X on a particular
part of one machine. The GE people disassembled the machine, discovering to
their amazement that the defect lay precisely where Steinmetz's chalk mark
was located.
Some days later Steinmetz sent GE an invoice for $10,000.00. They protested
the amount and asked him to itemize it. He sent back an itemized invoice:
Making one chalk mark..............................................$1.00
Knowing where to place it......................................$9,999.00
--
Neil Johnson
http://www.njohnsn.com
PGP key available on request.
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Subject: RE: KPC3+
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:54:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 36
>>My only complaint with Kantronics is that they don't even sell the firmware
>>for the older hardware. The only reason for not making it available is to
>>force users into buying new hardware. They could at the very least post
>>the binary image with a disclaimer that no support will be provided. But
>>if you've got a KPC-3 with older firmware, right now you have no legal
>>options except to buy a KPC-3+.
>
>Ever consider the possibility that the new firmware may not work in older
>KPC-3+'s because of design changes (new parts to replace end of life ones,
>quality/cost/manufacturability improvements) ?
>
>Actually, I'm just happy they still actually make TNC's.
>
>As for charging $50 dollars for the EEPROM upgrade. I'm reminded of the
>following story (copied from http://www.protrainco.com/essays/tellstory.htm#7
>)
The KPC-3 and the KPC-3+ should really be considered different units.
And that may be part of the confusion.
As to your story... I really see no relevance to the situation at hand
at all.
If you want something more relevant, consider that almost ALL the new
'technology' in the last number of years is 'hardware sales', and the
software is considered the vehicle to the hardware.
How many items in the last few years CANNOT be upgraded? And how many
people charge for upgrades anymore, as long as the item itself is still
'current'?
Palm? I just got a free upgrade to Palm OS 3.5 for my Palm IIIc and
Palm V.
My CD burner? Just flashed new firmware in to handle bigger media this
last spring.
My laptops? Well, I have a number, and I can say that the ones that are
still current I can go to the IBM web site and get the 'latest and
greatest' firmware.
Let's see, what else... Oh, my Garmin GPS... Upgraded the E-Trex I got
for my son. Upgraded the GPS-II+ and my GPS-III. In fact, I just last
month picked up the Digitraveler. (That's why I dug out my old Palm IIIc!)
Got an upgrade for that already.
In EVERY SINGLE CASE the upgrades were FREE. Not even a service charge.
FREE. As in ZERO. Just my effort to do so.
Oh, there IS one item I upgraded that was a charge. My K2. But then the
upgrade was a new processor. And it was, in my opinion, reasonably priced.
But then there's Kantronics. We're not talking a service charge here.
We're talking a MAJOR FEE. And we're not talking about sending it to them
for upgrade. Heck, RADIO SHACK didn't charge that much for changes to
their TRS-80!
"IF" I had known that it would have taken me $50 to upgrade the firmware, I
wouldn't have paid NEAR the $50 for the hardware. IF in fact the firmware
is indeed worth the $50, to me that puts their hardware into the $20 to
make buying a used KPC-3 viable on the used market.
They are in a dream world. A greedy dream world. And when they wake up,
they probably won't want to be in our (ie HAM) world at all, so I wouldn't
be surprised it they just bail out eventually and leave everybody
hanging...
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Subject: Re: Inverter Blues
From: "Brian Riley (maillist)" <n1bq_list@wulfden.org>
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:11:29 -0500
X-Message-Number: 37
Modified sine wave is nothing more than a square wave with a delayed zero
crossing. This removes a number of the nasty harmonics that compose a true
square wave, but not all of them. Some power supplies use circuits that,
for lack of a better phrase, get indigestion on the remaining components.
Which is why for example Apple MacIntoshes from the LC III on, most laser
printers, many high end soldering stations and raft of other devices, don't
like Mod-sine. Mod-sine will produce irreversible damage to the power
supplies.
You have just learned a lesson that those of us who live off-the-grid get
taught right up front.
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Subject: RE: KPC3+
From: "Dick Stanich" <dick@kb7zva.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:51:51
X-Message-Number: 38
>"IF" I had known that it would have taken me $50 to upgrade the
>firmware, I wouldn't have paid NEAR the $50 for the hardware. IF
>in fact the firmware is indeed worth the $50, to me that puts their
>hardware into the $20 to make buying a used KPC-3 viable on the
>used market.
>
>They are in a dream world. A greedy dream world. And when they
>wake up, they probably won't want to be in our (ie HAM) world at all,
>so I wouldn't be surprised it they just bail out eventually and leave
>everybody hanging...
Sounds to me like it was YOUR choice, and a bad one at that. Now, to
justify your own mistake you want an audience and a platform to tell the
world what? I don't think they are in that dream world you are attempting
to paint. I'm sure when they got your $50, they all stood around doing
high-five's with smiles on their faces <g>. NOT!
Now tell us... when you got the upgrade you put the TNC into KISS mode. Now
that would be worth talking about. You see, in my world the KPC-3's are
pretty cool TNC's.
Get over it and move on... enjoy the hobby.
Dick, KB7ZVA
APRSWest
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Subject: paccomm
From: "JBCrafts" <jbcraft@adelphia.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:31:40 -0500
X-Message-Number: 39
Is PacComm still in business??
I have emailed them six times over the past year and not a single reply...
Bob K8YS
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Subject: Re: paccomm
From: "Jason Rausch" <ke4nyv@hamhud.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:22:23
X-Message-Number: 40
Have you tried calling them at 1-813-874-2980 ?
Jason KE4NYV
www.ke4nyv.com
RPC Electronics
www.ke4nyv.com/rpc
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