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ZL3AI > APRDIG 23.10.03 21:06l 247 Lines 9282 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Oct 21, 3/6
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Sadowski, Allan" <allan.sadowski@ncshp.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:18:22 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18
This begs the question... and I've seen something here in the past on
this topic...
But anyone here on the SIG have a good URL that references hooking up a
second battery in parallel for the specific purpose for radio use.... so
that the CAR alternator charges the second battery... but it is the only
battery that gets drawn from for the radio/gps/tnc/PC....
TNX
ALOHA
AH6LS
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:19:38 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 19
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>Sorry to argue, but when I see words like "seriously" and "even once", it
>sends up an "old-wives-tale-flag" in my face...
OOPS, lemme correct this ASAP before it sends up even more red flags.
I should not have said "old wives tale flag" because everyone knows that
one should not routinely deepcycle a car battery. What I meant to say,
was that any strongly worded statement about absolutes without conditions
sends up red flags to me indicating it is an exaggeration and misleading
to the casual observer...
back under my rock...
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Tyler Allison" <tyler@allisonhouse.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:32:18 -0400 (GMT+4)
X-Message-Number: 20
>I picked up a deep cycle battery (about 85 AH I think) at Costco for about
>$40... not that big an investment, and worth it to avoid wear on the car
>battery.
How do you keep it charged while installed in the car?
-Tyler
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:50:11 -0700
X-Message-Number: 21
Well, I don't, yet. =] This particular battery is an emergency spare in my
garage... I bring it along sometimes when I go camping. (Not backpacking,
though.) My Honda Accord isn't the best vehicle to load up with
electronics.. I'm holding off on that until I get myself a used Blazer or
something along those lines. Something I don't mind drilling lots of holes
in. =]
Scott
N1VG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Allison" <tyler@allisonhouse.com>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:32 PM
Subject: [aprssig] Re: run time a car battery....
>>I picked up a deep cycle battery (about 85 AH I think) at Costco for about
>>$40... not that big an investment, and worth it to avoid wear on the car
>>battery.
>
>How do you keep it charged while installed in the car?
>
>-Tyler
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:50:09 -0400
X-Message-Number: 22
Well, I'm not a 'battery expert' when it comes to lead acid in a car, but I
know a bit about batteries in general.
I will say this. When I say 'seriously' I mean 'seriously'. I didn't use
the term lightly.
While discharging a normal car battery to dead and recharging may not
APPEAR to weaken the cell, it won't be the 'front end' usage that will
suffer. It will be the back end that degrades almost immediately. It will
loose the reserve capability to continue to supply high current levels when
it is in a partially discharged state when environmental concerns are at
their greatest. And isn't that just what you want? A battery that works
fine when it's a nice fall day at 60 degrees but fails miserably the first
time you leave your lights on for 20 minutes at 15 degrees when you're
miles from home? Sure, the back end degrading doesn't matter, it's
trivial, right?
Mike
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Dave VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:02:48 -0500
X-Message-Number: 23
At 12:32 PM 10/21/2003 -0700, James Washer wrote:
>Well, if you leave the mobile rig powered up 7x24... and your standby
>current is ~1A (from the d700a manual). You're burning 24AH each day.
>Given most (smaller) car batteries are rated less than 100AH, it won't
>take long to find a car that won't start.
Much less than 100AH Closer to 50.
Also, they don't really rate them that way anymore, because they aren't
designed to put out X amps for Y hours.
They are designed to deliver short high current bursts, and for VERY light
standby drains.
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: "Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:58:21 -0700
X-Message-Number: 24
>>I picked up a deep cycle battery (about 85 AH I think) at Costco for about
>>$40... not that big an investment, and worth it to avoid wear on the car
>>battery.
>
>How do you keep it charged while installed in the car?
I have a group 27 deep cycle marine battery in my van for all the radio
and interior lights. With a battery isolator installed, both batteries
will do quite well at staying charged. Keep in mind there is a slight
(.7) volt drop or so in the over all charging voltage after the
isolator, but a small price to pay for keeping things lit and still
being able to start the van.
It's my work truck, so I also have a 120volt input on the drivers side
by the door. At home (and often on the mountaintop) I plug it in, that
gets me 120v inside to charge all the little tools and testers, it also
powers a marine battery conditioner which charges the deep cycle battery
properly without overcharging or boiling it off.
Sounds complex, but I have quite a bit of 12v stuff and don't like to be
without it.
73
N7HQR
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Gonzales Andy <agonzales@arc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:17:55 -0700
X-Message-Number: 25
Look at Xantrex,1500. We have a 600, which is no longer made, and use it
to provide either AC or DC for a variety of loads from computers to TV's to
battery chargers. It has a deep cycle battery with an inverter. You can
recharge the deep cycle battery with a standard auto battery charger or
back through the DC port from a power port in your vehicle (while you drive
hi hi). We have not used that mode but it is in the manual along with some
cautions. The whole thing is in a nice plastic case on wheels..
Hacking in a battery involves the same cautions as jump starting a car I'd
imagine with the same issues of H2 gas development so I'd be real careful.
--
Andy Gonzales
KG6RWO
NASA / Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000
Bldg. N-244, Rm. 240
MS 244-19
agonzales@arc.nasa.gov
650-604-0309
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Subject: Re: run time a car battery....
From: Dave VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:03:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 26
At 04:18 PM 10/21/2003 -0400, Sadowski, Allan wrote:
>This begs the question... and I've seen something here in the past on this
>topic...
>
>But anyone here on the SIG have a good URL that references hooking up a
>second battery in parallel for the specific purpose for radio use.... so
>that the CAR alternator charges the second battery... but it is the only
>battery that gets drawn from for the radio/gps/tnc/PC....
I use a surplus 12V -> 24V boost converter to supply input to a reg that
handles the battery charging.
The reg has undervoltage lockout, which is set to 13V.
So, when the alternator isn't outputting, or there's a heavy load, charging
stops.
When everything's normal, I have up to 3A available to charge the
batteries, and run the loads.
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Subject: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: "Tim Cunningham" <tim_cunningham@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:28:04 -0500
X-Message-Number: 27
>The new system is not compatible with our existing WIDEn-n digipeaters due
>to callsign substitution issues. The problem were running into here is
>that we are loosing consistency... sorry, but I'm back to thinking we're
>breaking the system. 100% of these examples would work if we'd just added
>the alias IGATE after the RELAY,WIDE instead of using RELAY as the litmus
The other issue I can see is the system loses any redundancy with a
pre-emptive digipeater changing the path to a local IGate. What happens
when the local IGate goes down? It requires manual intervention and relies
on the human element. So, what is really needed is a system that detects a
dead IGate and tries to route the traffic to the next available IGate. It
is wishful thinking at the moment. The best thing that comes to mind was
the old FlexNet implementation with dynamic routing capabilities in the
packet world when a node was dead.
Tim - N8DEU
Huntsville, Alabama
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