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ZL3AI > APRDIG 23.10.03 14:34l 235 Lines 9778 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:21:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 28
>This whole discussion seems to take the simple concept of pseudo
>aliases and complicate it.
>
>If you want to use the old system, use it.
>
>If you want lots of "local" packets, send it to RELAY or RELAY,LOCAL
>
>If you want to cover your region, send it to RELAY,REGION
>
>If you want to cover the extended region (hopefully on an infrequent
>basis), send it to RELAY,WORLD
>
>If you want to get it to the get it to the IGATE, use RELAY,IGATE.
Bill's suggestions above are quite insightful -- and certainly as worth
considering as anything that anyone else has floated (and more so than some).
:) Interestingly, it has the same personality as the existing system: users
control the damage. :)
Suppose everyone decides RELAY,WORLD is what is best for them? Mayhem on a
grand scale. :)
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but the solution is still in educating
the end-user on a regular basis. Let's start with a "basic" version of the
APRSteward system.
Each area (Bob started to define them in an earlier email) should establish
what the best UNPROTO path should be for their area. One station (that
area's APRSteward) should be setup to send an APRS BLN: every 15-minutes
that describes what the preferred UNPROTO is for that particular area. The
BLN: should be sent to "preferred unproto path + 2 more hops".
Doing this 24/7 for a month or two may have an immediate effect on local
traffic. If not...then nothing lost.
Ev, W2EV
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Subject: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: "Bill Vodall - WA7NWP" <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:14:56 -0700
X-Message-Number: 29
>Suppose everyone decides RELAY,WORLD is what is best for them? Mayhem on a
>grand scale. :)
Not at all. With "adequate" digi's, they would be smart enough to not send
out these "DX" packets too often. The network cycle time is preserved and
the area of coverage is appropriate for the user load.
We had a great posting on the local discussion list (NWAPRS) recently
commenting on how, with smart digi's, they'ed self configure for the
network status. During off-peak hours, a WORLD packet might go a hop or
two further then during rush hour when all the mobiles are driving around.
It's just software... (And time and money and endless discussion...)
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
PS. Hey Ev, I'm going to order 50.62 MHz rocks for the MFJ-9606 data radio
real soon now and try to scare up some activity in the local area.
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Subject: APRS Aliases, their past usage and "Smart Digipeating"
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:17:13 -0400
X-Message-Number: 30
APRS is based on a series of affirmative commands. Examples:
RELAY,WIDE,WIDE = digipeat me three times, radially
RELAY,GATE,GATE,WIDE2-2 = digipeat me once on VHF, GATE me to HF, GATE me back
to VHF, digipeat me twice - radially from my VHF
entry point.
Now lets add the non-Amateur radio mode of "the Internet stream". The
assumption is that if you are heard by an IGate, your frame WILL be passed to
the IStream without regard as to the intent of the originator. This was a
conscious decision that was made by the authors of this system. A launching
station needs not state anything in the UNPROTO in order to have a received
frame sent to the Internet Stream. It is the only system in which the APRS
protocol placed the control solely in the hands of the receiving station --
until RFONLY (or NOGATE) was finally introduced. This allowed the following
affirmative command to be used:
RELAY,WIDE2-2,RFONLY = digipeat me three times, radially and do NOT pass me
to the Internet Stream
This once again, placed the control of one's TX frame in the hands of the
originator.
Fast forward again to the discussion of the introduction of "smart
digipeaters". This is a term that describes [devices] that change the
originators intended UNPROTO to something else -- without the permission of
the originating station.
I would propose that IF this is actually the philosophy that the APRS
fathers wish to pursue, then it is incumbant to include an "RFONLY-like"
alias (one that allows the originator to regain control of their TX frame)
that will cause such "smart devices" to allow a frame to propagate as
intended without UNPROTO modification.
Let's call it "LOCKED" (as in: "I know what I want to happen, and I want
the UNPROTO that I've assigned to this frame to be LOCKED as I've launched
it"). This will allow:
Users Smart Digi's
Launching Modifying to
----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
RELAY,WIDE15-15 WIDE2-2 (or whatever n-N=getting to
the nearest IGate from that
'smart digi')
RELAY,WIDE,GATE,GATE,WIDE2-2,LOCKED RELAY,WIDE,GATE,GATE,WIDE2-2,LOCKED
Of course, there is still the possibility that someone will want to launch
a frame like this: RELAY,WIDE15-15,LOCKED. That's when user education
(somebody stop me, already <grin>) and eventual SUPLISTing comes into the
picture. Basically, "Play nice or face the Wouf Hong and Rettysnitch". :)
Ev Tupis, W2EV
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Subject: D7 on alkaline Batteries
From: "Frank Ingle" <command@ilnk.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:09:01 -0400
X-Message-Number: 31
I am the almost proud owner of a new Kenwood D7A(G) H/T. I say almost
because I'm not very happy with the battery life. I picked up the optional
AA battery case, and found that a fresh set of batteries lasts 2 - 7 days
of occasional use for me before it starts shutting down every time I hit
the PTT button. This is compared to about 6 months of life for a set of AA
batteries in my Icom 2-SAT, with comparable 'occasional' use.
I made some measurements on current consumption of the D7 and found it to
be lower than the consumption specs published in the manual in every case
but one - Rx (not dual mode) - with no signal: the spec was 45 ma, and mine
consumed 54.8 ma. Not a big difference.
I have scoured the manual for hints on saving power and have tried them
all, with little luck. The manual suggests that the unit shuts down when
the voltage drops below 5.3 V. I am of the opinion that this was
engineered a little too close to the maximum voltage for fresh alkaline
batteries of 6V. If each cell drops just 0.175 V, you're out of business!
Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so, is there a better battery
alkaline pack available, or any other work-arounds?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
-73-
de KG4CQK
Sandy Ingle
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Subject: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:33:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 32
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>What I was trying to do under the new paradigm of where SYSOPS take
>control of their networks, was to find a way for the sysops to start
>forcing users that only want to get to an igate to get there and to
>truncate their path beyond that...
>
>>Of course that still leaves the issue of 90% of the people simply
>>wanting to get to an IGATE and [having to] alter their paths to include
>>the word IGATE.
>
>Yep, but probably we will just have to put this one in the "user education
>bin". BUT we should include all SYSOPS to have their smart digis look for
>the "IGATE" flag and act accordingly. This will help!
Just as soon as I took one tack, the spin changed on the tread. :) This
changes the personality of the suggested "New Paradigm" quite a bit. So,
what does "act accordingly" mean if someone launches a frame with this
unproto: RELAY,WIDEn-N,IGATE
Ev, W2EV
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Subject: Re: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:45:30 -0400
X-Message-Number: 33
Bill Vodall - WA7NWP wrote:
>
>>Suppose everyone decides RELAY,WORLD is what is best for them? Mayhem on a
>>grand scale. :)
>
>Not at all. With "adequate" digi's, they would be smart enough to not send
>out these "DX" packets too often. The network cycle time is preserved and
>the area of coverage is appropriate for the user load.
Ahhh, of course. I should have started asking more questions than assuming
too much. This makes sense. It comes down to being sure that the
dictionary is well understood (ie: define "LOCAL", "REGION" and "WORLD" so
that everyone knows what to expect when using the aliases). I simply
assumed that "WORLD" was really "the APRS' RF universe". :))
>PS. Hey Ev, I'm going to order 50.62 MHz rocks for the MFJ-9606 data radio
>real soon now and try to scare up some activity in the local area.
Hey, this is GREAT news! In fact...we'er trying to find all of the pockets
of activity around the world on this frequency and convincing the existing
users to include a 5-minute TX cycle of a PropNET formatted frame... ie-
W2EV>IDVK,FLOOD,HOP2-2:[FN03XD]PHG5030C6/
This will add an insignificant channel load, but will be a huge benefit to
the entire 6m amateur community. Let us know when you come up on the
frequency!
Good luck!
Ev, W2EV
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