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ZL3AI > APRDIG 23.10.03 04:32l 264 Lines 12246 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Oct 20, 2/4
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: Accuracy of Garmin GPS devices?
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:54:19 -0400
X-Message-Number: 10
Actually, I think the question boils down to do you really want to know.
On one hand, the units loose lock, and the delay loops hide the fact
from you for short periods of time. On the other hand, the units
report true status much more aggressively.
Now before you give what you think is the obvious answer, think about
who the 'end user' is. Yeah, it's nice to know, but the average person?
The one who may be calling his friend up 4 or 5 times a day because
'something is wrong here'. Or worse, a 'customer', that you have to
explain again and again and again the loss of lock, or on the other had
you can explain it as 'standard operation' that is expected and within
normal operational parameters.
Mike
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Subject: RE: run time a car battery....
From: "Jack R. Smith" <jack.smith2@us.army.mil>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:45:56 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11
I take it for granted that this is one of those things you would have rather
found out second-hand?
BTW, my APRS rig runs off a Hawker 61AH SLA in the trunk that charges off
the main electrical system only when the car is running. I have no idea how
long it will last... Longer than I've needed it so far!!
Jack KE4LWT
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Subject: D700 / WinAPRS / tracker compatibility?
From: "Richard Amirault" <ramirault@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:39:23 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
This past weekend I was involved in a public service event that used APRS.
My involvement was twofold.
1) I built a dumb tracker (radio, tnc, gps) and
2) I used my vehicle and D700 as a digi for the event.
There were two "base" stations also in the event. One running WinAPRS and
the other UIView. We wanted the tracker symbols to be a circle with a
number inside. When I assembled and tested my tracker that's exactly what
showed up on my APRSDos screen. But all during the event I was never able
to get a position on my own tracker. I could see it beacon, but always with
question marks on the first line of the D700 screen (as if it didn't know
what it was receiving) Other trackers showed up in my station recieved
list, but not my own tracker. (don't know how the other trackers were
actually programed)
I was able to see the WinAPRS screen and the icon was only an empty circle.
I don't know if UIView showed the circle with number correctly.
TWO QUESTIONS:
Why didn't WINAprs show the icon correctly (another of those
"incompatiblitly" issues that Bob is always talking bout?) and
Why didn't I get a valid position report on my D700?
Richard Amirault N1JDU Boston,
MA, USA
ramirault@erols.com "Go Fly A Kite"
http:// www.erols.com/ramirault
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Subject: New APRSCA Website
From: "Phil Pacier, AD6NH" <ad6nh@arrl.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:7:4
X-Message-Number: 13
Hello all. This post is to announce a re-launch of the APRSCA website. I
have taken the new UI-View Webserver functions and have incorporated them
onto the APRSCA main page, along with many other features. The idea was to
have a single page that served many functions. I am not done adding
features, but nonetheless, the new site is open. Enjoy!
73
Phillip Pacier - AD6NH
http://www.aprsca.net
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Subject: Mic-E hardware
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:21:29 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14
I'm thinking of writing an article on APRS for the USHGA Hang gliding and
Paragliding magazine.. many (most?) hang glider and paraglider pilots have
amateur radio licenses, mostly because there's no real suitable alternative
for air-to-air and air-to-ground communication. I think a lot of them would
be interested in APRS if they knew a little bit about it. Recovery vehicles
would benefit from automatic tracking of gliders during cross-country
flights, and there's an added safety aspect in the event of a crash. Not to
mention access to the APRS weather stations that are being installed at some
flying areas.
I think Mic-E would be the simplest way to get pilots into APRS, but I'm
really not familliar with the hardware that's currently supported. I'll
recommend at least the TinyTrak3 and the TH-D7... what other hardware should
they know about? For ground station use, I'm recommending AGWPE... no
reason for them to have to fuss with a TNC, especially for rx-only use.
When the TT3 is used for Mic-E (with external PTT input), does it still
automatically beacon? I've never used it in this mode. Might be useful if
a pilot went down and wasn't able to transmit manually.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: RE: TH-D7 Question
From: Henk de Groot <henk.de.groot@hetnet.nl>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:56:45 +0200
X-Message-Number: 15
At 16:11 19-10-03 -0400, Chris Rose wrote:
>The D700 has the same problem. Listening to two VHF freqs at same time and
>key up on one interferes with the other.
You can set DCD detection to both bands, that will hold the APRS
transmission as long as there is a carrier on one or the other band. When
you listen to short transmissions on the other VHF side it will introduce a
small delay in the APRS data transmission (just like when you transmit
yourself on that VHF side). Of course on a repeater or listening to a long
QSO the delay may become unacceptable long (depening on what you are
transmitting)...
Kind regards,
Henk.
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Subject: Re: Smart DIgis and the new Paradigm
From: Wes Johnston <wes@johnston.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:57:49 -0400
X-Message-Number: 16
At 10:34 AM 10/20/2003, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>No, even if the IGate was in range of the same smart digi that heard the
>packet, that digi must still digipeat it at least once. So you still get
>the guarante of at least one full digipeat by at least one FULL function
You get the CHANCE that it'll be digipeated by a WIDE digi.... Let's not
forget that some people's wide nodes are also IGATES.
>1) If a home RELAY picked it up, then it would digi it to the next full
>function digi.
True... and everyone within range of the RELAY station would hear a copy of
the packet. But RELAYs intentionally have less than optimal coverage...
they're supposed to have a limited range.
>2) If a full function smart digi heard it first, then it would DIGIpeat it
>at least once or whatever it took to get to the IGate.
.....And since I was forced to use RELAY, my packet would be routed by the
smart digi using a SPECIFIC callsign of the next digi or to the IGATE. The
wide digi in the next town might hear it, but if it's callsign is not next
in the queue, it will not digipeat it. My packet was swallowed up by the
network and redirected to some point I wasn't aware of , or mis-directed to
some route I didn't want.... You presume that all people running RELAY in
their path want to get to an igate, and well, they may not. Unlike the
lids who run RELAY RELAY WIDE RELAY for paths, there is a perfectly good
reason to run RELAY, WIDE..... and that path may not cover the area I
expect due to rerouting at the digi. This is amazing to me.... you push to
not allow the network to alter silly paths b/c there might be some reason
that someone wants to run a crazy path, now you say that we should take
just about *everyone's* paths and reroute them. <shaking head slowly......>
>In both cases, your packet is guaranteed to get to the APRS Infrastructure
>as defined to be the nearest full function DIGI and from there to the
>nearest IGate.
No, it's not... I'm simply saying that I *may* want my packet to bounce
around my local area for a while on RF... I am forced to use RELAY as a
first hop, and that runs the risk of having my packet rerouted. How do I
use RELAY,WIDE _and_ prevent my packet from being rerouted by this new
paradigm?
>>guess what.... a path of RELAY is what I had to use just incase I was out
>>of range of a digi and happened to be in range of a home user.
>
>No, you are not understanding the concept. Only full function smart digis
>will make the change. A home station should NEVER change people's paths.
What if a smart digi hears it first?
>The difference is that the RELAY idea would enforce the filtering out of
>unnecesary long paths and not depend on the users. Whereas the IGATE idea
>is just the status quo and 90% of those that could use it would probably
>never do it... Adding 7 bytes to every packet actually makes your
>probabliity of success go down...
In my case, I live in Sumter SC with a ridge of hills (and a swamp) between
us and Columbia SC. What you are telling me is that my buddy driving
around in Columbia would have his RELAY,WIDE or RELAY, SC2-2 packet sent to
an igate in columbia. And because it was rerouted, the digi in Columbia
would TX the packet. with a new path... a callsign specific path.. that
would be redirected to Columbia's IGATE. The Sumter digi (45 miles away)
can hear the other Columbia's digi, but would not repeat the packet because
that packet had been rerouted to Columbia's igate... end result is that as
my buddy drives over the hill to columbia, I would never hear him again
locally in RF. You just cut our two towns off from one another. My buddy
on the other hand, is forced to use RELAY in the first hop in case he's not
able to be heard by either DIGI directly. What you are saying is that if
he didn't want his path altered, he shouldn't run RELAY in the path... but
if he doesn't do that and instead runs only WIDE, then the area in which he
can get into the network is limited to the coverage area of the nearest
WIDE node, and you just eradicated the additional "black hole" coverage
afforded to us by RELAY stations.
I know I'm speiling out a lot of gloom and doom.... the idea of allowing a
packet to be routed to a specific point in the network is a great idea. In
fact, it's the equivalent of directional WIDEn-n that the mic-encoder
supports for getting to an IGATE. On RF, I know if I'm travelling south
and I want to get back home, I need to direct my packet in a northerly
direction, so I use WIDE8-8 to go north..... It may be that the nearest
IGATE to me is east or west, and the digipeater can dynamically alter my
path towards my intended destination.. the internet gateway.... so the idea
of smart digi's getting my packet to an igate is a really really great
idea. We just need to use something other than everyone's friend RELAY to
do it - and I'm racking my brain to come up with something unique and
universally deployable. I believe strongly that simply adding IGATE to
the end of your path is the way to accomplish this.. It retains
compatibility with our exisitng "dumb" digi's and the smart digi's can find
IGATE in the path and seize the opportunity to exercise advanced routing.
The LANn-n and LINKn-n are fine ideas... they stop the distant stations...
If this RELAY -> IGATE deal is implemented, you just cut off everyone more
than 1 hop away... and that is too restrictive. It makes running my
kenwood d700 (as opposed to running a dumb tracker) useless in
Sumter/Columbia or any other area which may require two hops. Can't we use
another alias? Can a standard "home use" TNC digipeat more than one alias
(such as MYPBBS ?). Make the 2nd alias IGATE in the home stations.... that
way I can run a path like IGATE, WIDE to indicate that I wish to have my
path modified. I will concede that in time of emergency, I could change my
tracker's path to use callsign specific paths to reach a digipeater 2 hops
away... but doesn't that run counter to the "hit the ground running" nature
of APRS in an emergency?
Wes
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