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ZL3AI > APRDIG 25.09.03 09:52l 249 Lines 9847 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 1974-ZL3AI
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 22, 3/7
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Fw: Excessive Paths - WIDE5 - TX
From: "Bill Vodall WA7NWP" <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:24:26 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11
----- Original Message -----
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
>If someone uses WIDE5-5 from Dallas, TX for instance, they can be
>affecting local networks 500+ miles away in ALL directions!
The Texas network has been mentioned here often in the past week. Seeing
that a WIDE5-5 goes 500 miles, I can't help but wonder if they're suffering
from the same problem we have in the Pacific Northwest of too many
digipeaters that are "too good."
If we had digi's with the appropriate coverage (much less then 50 stations)
and digipeater software that really worked, a WIDE5 path would have the
effect of adding more traffic to net and range to the transmissions, but not
a network crippling packet storm.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: APRS PERL Help needed
From: Jon Anhold <jon@snoopy.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:23:15 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
Andrew Rich wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>I am inserting APRS data into mysql.
>
>There are all sorts of lovely character combinations in the aprs stream
>
>Does anyone have a search and replace sequence to help stop :-
>
>"you have an error in your mysql statement "
>
>I need to escape slashes, inverted commas, quotes, brackets, anything
>else ?
I assume you're using Perl DBI.. $var =
$dbh->quote($var);
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Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Excessive Paths - WIDE5 - TX
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:44:14 -0500
X-Message-Number: 13
I will be the first to say that the APRS network in Texas is not
necessarily optimal. However, there are some issues that aren't quite
as easily solved as in some mountainous areas.
In general, most of Texas is relatively flat making visibility between
digis extremely good (digis seeing other digis). However, it does have
a large number of small hills and valleys which makes reliable coverage
for mobiles difficult using digipeaters located at low heights. Most
WIDEn-n digis in north Texas (DFW area) only have an effective coverage
radius of about 5-15 miles (less than 50 stations). However, those same
digis are seeing other WIDEn-n digis 50-60 miles away. This is part of
the problem and an oversimplification of the actual topology, but it
should give a good idea of why we see such an impact from long paths.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
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Subject: APRS telemetry application
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:48:47 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14
Here's one for the APRS authors. I'd like to have the ability (kind of like
LabView) to snap together a bunch of building blocks, choosing from a
library of things like analog meters, digital displays, and strip charts, to
build a telemetry viewer screen. Each block would be tied to a specified
callsign/ssid (or a wildcard for 'currently selected station'), and would
specify labels, units, and conversion factors. Eventually I'd also like to
see map displays in the library as well.
Let's say you've got a balloon flight transmitting weather data and such...
you could build a screen showing all of the telemetry values coming back,
converted to appropriate units and displayed in an appropriate form, and
maybe include a couple of map displays at different scales and a 3D
projection, or at least a vertical bar to display altitude.
I know APRS is fairly limited in its telemetry support, but if there were
some better tools out there I think more people would use it. And OpenTrac
should make it a whole lot easier - one of my goals with telemetry support
in OpenTrac is to provide a rich enough vocabulary that you can have a
satellite or weather balloon transmitting telemetry, and have a user with no
special software or prior knowledge of the transmitting station be able to
view the data in a meaningful way.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: Take Control of your DIGI
From: wes@johnston.net
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:53:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 15
Bob, I thought of a name for the routing sans WIDEn-n... "keyhole routing".
(give something a cute name, and people remember it). <grin>
The furtherest one can go with generic path without WIDEn-n is 2 hops.
WIDE, WIDE but *not* WIDE,WIDE,WIDE. After the second hop, you will have
to specify a specific callsign, let's say for the sake of arguement, your
neighboring WIDE node to the south (w4sou). Your path would be
WIDE,WIDE,w4sou and the area covered would be two concentric circles with
one additional hop south.... a circle with a line sticking out the bottom
which looks like a keyhole.
I've given what you spoke about alot of though on the way home and I think
you are right. I hate so much to abandon WIDEn-n after kantronics put it
in for us, but at the same time, since user education isn't working,
wideN-N is killing the fun on RF. Dropping back to recommended path of
RELAY,WIDE for mobiles and WIDE WIDE for fixed stations seems to be the
correct thing to do.
Wes
ham callsign: kd4rdb
find me: http://wesvan.zapto.org
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Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Excessive Paths - WIDE5 - TX
From: "tvsjr@sprynet.com" <tvsjr@sprynet.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
X-Message-Number: 16
>The Texas network has been mentioned here often in the past week. Seeing
>that a WIDE5-5 goes 500 miles, I can't help but wonder if they're suffering
>from the same problem we have in the Pacific Northwest of too many
>digipeaters that are "too good."
500 miles is stretching it, at least under "normal" propagation. When I
travel from Dallas to Austin, I have to increase my path to WIDE5-5 to be
visible in Austin on RF, and I usually don't start making it down there
until I'm 30-50 miles south of the metroplex. That would make WIDE5-5's
reach a generous 150 miles. If the band is enhanced, it can go much
further... of course, so could a simple WIDE path.
As for too many "too good" digis, you're correct. For an example (certainly
not the only one), I would hypothesize that W5DCR-3, located in downtown
Dallas on a tall office building, is far too good for the terrain. I
haven't done extensive research, but it's definitely several hundred feet
up - the PHG it transmits indicates 25 watts, 640ft., 6dBi, omni. The digi
also IDs about once per 10 minutes, and uses paths like WIDE7-7, WIDE5-5,
etc. occasionally (once every few hours).
In other areas of the country with more varied terrain, tall sites might be
a good thing for APRS. For the terrain of northeast Texas, more, "shorter"
sites would likely be much more beneficial.
My $.02.
73,
Terry/N5RSE
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Subject: Other APRS sats?
From: "Rochte, Robert" <rrochte@gpacademy.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:11:07 -0400
X-Message-Number: 17
Are there other amateur satellites that provide APRS digipeating besides
PCSat? Or is that the only one right now?
Thanks!
Robert
KC8UCH
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Subject: Re: Fw: Excessive Paths - WIDE5
From: "Dick Stanich" <dick@kb7zva.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:21:19
X-Message-Number: 18
>>As to the internet interface, I don't know of anyone in our
>>area (40 miles
>>SW of Ft Worth) that connects their APRS station to the
>>internet (APRS IC?).
>
>There is a 24/7 IGate in SW Ft. Worth which is gating all of your
>packets to APRS-IS seen via N5YXO-1 or K5FTW-5.
>
>>Our mobile path Relay, Wide3-3 or home path of digi(named),
>>Wide3-3 seems
>>to serve us well. There are some down here that feel that
>>this sig has
>>become more about Internet interfacing than radio interfacing.
>
>And with those paths, you are interfering with activities in Dallas,
>Denton, and Collin counties, 100+ miles away (and in Waco and Austin, as
>well). The network topology has changed and adjustments by individual
>groups should be made to reduce long distance QRM.
Yes. And one shouldn't exclude the fact that APRS is both RF and the
internet. WO5M-10 (Igate) is located 28.8 miles from N5TAM and it's other
ssid's. The Igate is sending all it hears to the internet. This could be a
valuable tool if used properly, by making better use of paths.
I'm a SkyWarn spotter and a storm chaser. When I go mobile with a laptop I
use paths just long enough to reach my own Igate. In turn, our regional NWS
office (150 miles away) uses APRS, but is only on the internet. They can
follow my tracks and status reports very easy, without unnecessary paths
and qrm. During events my mobile laptop picks up NWS and Skywarn messages
that are being xmitted by the Igate, generally in one or two hops. A lot of
NWS offices out this way use APRS on the internet. They can all see the
same information I report in real time. We even message to each other. With
mobile mapping software and NWS overlays... I can watch storm progress. We
even use special paths to during events pointed at key digis and local
RELAY stations. I seldom use anything greater than RELAY,WIDE for my ops.
If someone wants comms. to me, and they are near a properly functioning
Igate... we can communicate hundreds or thousands of miles with a single
WIDE!
APRS is both RF and the internet. Knowing your local setup and adjusting to
it benefits everyone. It all fits together.
Dick, KB7ZVA
APRSWest
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