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ZL3AI > APRDIG 20.09.03 10:19l 224 Lines 9549 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Wednesday, September 17, 2003.
1. RE: APRS software for SAR
2. Re: Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
3. Re: Nodes versus DIGI's
4. Re: Proper DIGI ID interleaving
5. Re: Paths
6. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving
7. Re: Paths
8. Re: Paths
9. Re: Paths
10. RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
11. Re: Paths
12. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
13. PCSat does it again.
14. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving
15. KPC3* digi -was- Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
16. Re: Paths
17. WB4APR's typing
18. Help with status text
19. Re: WB4APR's typing
20. RE: Help with status text
21. Re: Paths
22. Re: WB4APR's typing
23. Re: WB4APR's typing
24. Re: WB4APR's typing
25. Re: WB4APR's typing
26. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
27. Re: KPC3* digi -was- Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
28. Re: Help with status text
29. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving KISS
30. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
31. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving KISS
32. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
33. Re: KPC3* digi -was- Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
34. How To use RELAY in APRS
35. Re: Paths
36. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
37. Re: WB4APR's typing
38. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving KISS
39. Re: WB4APR's typing
40. Re: WB4APR's typing
41. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
42. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
43. Re: Paths
44. RE: Proper DIGI ID interleaving KISS
45. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
46. Re: Travel Report on use of "WIDE" - IGATE access
47. Digi Range Experiment
48. Re: Digi Range Experiment
49. Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
50. Re: Digi Range Experiment
51. Re: Digi Range Experiment
52. sar/aprs software
53. RE: Re: Digi Range Experiment
54. RE: sar/aprs software
55. Book recommendations
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Subject: RE: APRS software for SAR
From: "Herb Gerhardt" <hgerhardt@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:59:33 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1
Ok, I have read the numerous responses to this question and I need to add
my 2 cents worth.
Keep in mind I am a friend of Curt's and hope he will not vent his hunting
frustrations at me and put an arrow between my ribs. Hi, hi,,,,, Curt
know my views and is working on trying to satisfy my simplistic views when
he gets there I will shout it from the highest mountains in Western
Washington. He has some great visions which I do hope will become reality
in the near future.
I have been working on the integration of APRS into local SAR activities
for over 6 years now. No, I have not totally succeeded but am still
heading in the right direction.
My inputs are that the most important thing is to pick a platform for the
entire county that you are involved in, in SAR activities. The main
problem is having enough or should I say any other qualified APRS
operators! You have to pick a platform that not only you can understand
and use but a platform that you can teach to others who are not very
computer literate. The KISS principal. You can not succeed if you do it
all by yourself.
That is the problem I am running into and have not been able to overcome
yet. When someone tells me they want to learn APRS and then tells me they
don't know how to even turn on a computer, all you can do is cringe. You
don't want to turn them off, but you can't teach them computer usage from
ground zero! They need to have a basic understanding of computers first.
Then the APRS program must be simple to use to a "rock"! I think you are
getting the point. The majority of us are computer users and not
programmers. We need a platform that you can teach someone with very
limited computer knowledge in an hour or two.
I have spent several weeks with DOS, UI-View, WinAPRS and attempted Xastir
via Cygwin. No, I never succeeded getting Cygwin to execute properly where
it would recognize the Xastir codes. I tried but failed. Curt is still
working on me, for some reason he has not yet given up on a dummy like me.
Must be because we are both hunters, hi, hi.... DOS was also too
confusing for me (I never learned to run a DOS computer) and the DOS maps
just did not do it for SAR usage. UI-View is really neat but it too has
some drawbacks in that the features change on a weekly if not daily basis.
Then when I ran my Norton Works maintenance on my computer, UI-View never
ran again! I have been using WinAPRS for 6 years now and really like it.
As Doug K7IP told me when he suggested I use WinAPRS said: "What you see
is what you get!"
I still have not forgotten those words and they are still true. I am
proficient enough in WinAPRS I can get someone going on it over the air in
about 30 minutes but that does mean they have basic computer windows
skills. It is the platform I selected for Mason County, WA SAR use. Yes it
does have some short-comings like all the APRS platforms do. The biggest
problem is that it does not support local Topo maps. I have discussed this
issue with the Sproul's for years but so far they are not there yet. I
certainly hope they are still working on the use of Topo maps with WinAPRS.
To me, the easiest and best APRS platform for SAR is still WinAPRS but that
is Version 2.5.1 with Precision Maps 3.0 or 3.5, not the current version of
2.7.2. The main problem with the later versions is that the PM maps only
fill 2/3 of the screen which is not very impressive when you try to use
sensationalism in trying to impress local SAR and County Officials in
trying to get them to support your efforts. Yes, the Tiger Maps work but
are too memory intensive and therefore too slow. They are also not as
"pretty" as Precision Maps. I am not sure of where the Sproul's will be
heading in the future but so far, I believe it is still the simplest APRS
platform to use, teach and maintain on old hand-me-down computers that are
the only ones we are able to get for county DEM and SAR use. Also most
importantly, we need a platform that does not require to be maintained on
numerous county computers more than once a year. Yes, you need to consider
that if you have the program running on 3 or 4 computers for SAR use, you
will have to maintain each one of those computers periodically. Yes, that
can take as much time as using APRS during SAR activities.
Enough said. I better shut up before everyone hits the delete button or I
can feel Curt's arrow between my ribs.
Herb, KB7UVC
NW APRS Group, West Sound Coordinator
Our WEB Site: www.nwaprs.org
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Subject: Re: Caution: Pedantic Academic Content follows
From: "Jack R. Smith" <jack.smith2@us.army.mil>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:14:06 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2
Try http://www.riteintherain.com for waterproof paper. Fairly inexpensive.
About $0.20 per sheet. That and waterproof ink and you should be set. As
far as the scaling goes, don't know what to do there but experiment. If
anyone has a solution for that, please share it with us.
73 de KE4LWT Jack
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Subject: Re: Nodes versus DIGI's
From: "Doug Younker" <dougy@ruraltel.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:02:28 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3
When I configured my node to equipment act as a simple aprs digi I referred
to it as "dumb digi" from the get go. I don't have a clue for my reasoning,
it doesn't have the capabilities of aprs digis using Kantronics or uidigi
firmware, for doing so is valid or not. Bob and all; for the sake of future
newcomers to aprs why not *officially* define "dumb digi" and "smart
digi".--73
Doug, N0LKK
dougy@ruraltel.net
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Subject: Re: Proper DIGI ID interleaving
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:38:34 -0400
X-Message-Number: 4
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
>To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:11 PM
>Subject: [aprssig] Proper DIGI ID interleaving
>
>>Part of the problem might be that some digis are not correctly
>>implementing the every-10-minute-Direct concept. If incorrectly done, it
>>could be adding a LOT of duplication... Here is how I would do it:
>Bob, can you put your recommendations in the spec errata? (Or would that be
>the corrigendum?) Or maybe we need a separate file on best operating
>practices...
Just a point of clarification: People associate the term "APRS" with all
operation of non-connected packet. This is unfortunate, as it (APRS, that
is) is specifically configured for use as an emergency communication
network that happens to support several other applications. It is within
that context that these threads should be understood.
On the other hand...there is a newly emerging (in the Northeast anyway)
network on 147.585 FM @ 1200 baud that uses APRS software, configured quite
differently (Digipeaters are the only TXers...all others LURK, while still
answering to the ?APRS? query). The idea is to study propagation and leave
the channel loading light to allow for DX to be noticed.
Yes...I know that this is a very small audience in comparison to the 20,000
on 144.39 and 144.800 (Europe), but it's an important point to make.
Just as Bob says, "it's about user choice" when it comes to one's digi
path, and to pick what makes the most of one's operation...the same holds
true for digipeater parameters (in the dimension of both traditional APRS
usage, as well as non-traditional APRS usage).
fwiw,
Ev Tupis, W2EV
http://www.PropNET.org
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