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ZL3AI > APRDIG 20.09.03 10:16l 262 Lines 9429 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Sep 17, 3/7
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: KPC3* digi -was- Re: RELAY,WIDE,WIDE
From: "BILL HERRMANN" <bherrman@spro.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:41:37 -0600 (MDT)
X-Message-Number: 15
>In West Texas (North) where there are many KPC-3's Relay is NOT allowed.
>(because of packet duplication bug, see my previous email).
I bit my tongue last time, but working as documented is not a bug. Maybe
it isn't the way we want it to work, but it works exactly the way
Kantronics has it documented in their manuals.
Their manuals have never claimed to apply the duplicate checking algorithm
to anything but the UI parameters. It isn't applied to the alias or the
digi's actual call.
Has anyone ever contacted Kantronics to ask for that feature change? They
just put out a new version of firmware for the KPC3+. If they had been
contacted by enough people the feature change might have gone in.
Bill
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Subject: Re: Paths
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 16
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Mark Cheavens wrote:
>DUPE checking on a KPC-3 ONLY occurs in n-n packets.
Not really. All digis (except ancient WIDE-only digis) do dupe
elimination on WIDE also, because they do callsign substitution and then
once they have done that, they then will never digipeat that packet
again because of their callsign.
>If you have a path of Relay, Wide2-2 and a KPC-3 hears the packet first and
>digipeats the packet based upon the RELAY, When the next digi hears the
>packet and acts upon the Wide2-2 and digipeats the packet as Wide2-1 the
>first digipeater will digipeat the packet again.
No. Because it did callsign substitution on the WIDE, so the next time it
sees it, it wont digipeat it again.
You are correct, however, in the special case of when two digis hear the
same initial packet, and both digipeat it they will not eliminate the dupe
resulting from the other digi. BUT, since both digis should key up at the
same time, this potential dupe is supposed to be eliminated by fratricide.
Yes, occasionally one gets through, but that is what gives us some
inherrent redundancy in the network.
Again, Fratricide was part of the fundamental APRS digipeating concept
that eliminates many dupes. But again, in some areas, well-meaning, local
sysops have not recognized the value of fratricide in their systems and
have hacked the digipeaters to take turns. This eliminates fratricide and
actually results in more QRM instead of less.
Remember also, that APRS was founded on the principle of a reasonable
number of dupes to improve probability of delivery. This crusade to
eliminate all dupes is counterproductive to APRS network reliability. It
is a fine balance.
- When I see two copies of a packet, I consider that GOOD.
- If I see 3 copies occasionally, I am not concerned.
- If I see 3 or more copies all the time, then something needs fixing
- If I only see 1 copy of most packets, I worry. This means I am probably
not seeing a large percentage of original packets becuse there is no
longer any redundancy in the system.
APRS was designed around the concept of about 2 copies of a packet in most
areas being about average. Such a network has at least double the
reliability of one with only rare dupes.
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: WB4APR's typing
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:58:21 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 17
For those of you that are concerned about all the typo's that I dont
bother correcting in my emails, this should be of interest:
"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht
the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total
mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the
huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a
wlohe."
boB
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Subject: Help with status text
From: "Michael J. Wolthuis" <wolthui3@msu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:04:37 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18
Everyone,
I have a standard KPC3 that I want to beacon status text with, but not
as part of the position beacon.
The reason is that it is an IGATE and the NWS. We want to use the NWS
Icon and beacon position as the NWS, but want to beacon an additionally
status text every 60mins that says it is a full featured IGATE.
Can anyone give me the context to put into the beacon text to make this
happen.
Memory says it is something like:
">This is a full featured IGATE."
Thanks,
Mike
Kb8zgl
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: WB4APR's typing
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:12:23 -0500
X-Message-Number: 19
At 11:58 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>For those of you that are concerned about all the typo's that I dont
>bother correcting in my emails, this should be of interest:
>
>"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
>waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht
>the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total
>mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the
>huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a
>wlohe."
>
>boB
will they apply this to cw testing?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Help with status text
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:22:14 -0500
X-Message-Number: 20
This is normally the function of the software you are using, not the TNC.
What software are you using to IGate? By NWS, do you mean that this
station is at a NWS office? Or do you meant that it is transmitting
weather readings from an attached weather station?
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
pete@ae5pl.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Paths
From: Glenn Wiebe <gswiebe@mb.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:13:02 -0500
X-Message-Number: 21
Thanks for the info Bob. If I read it correctly the only difference is that
with WIDE (and a UIDIGI) there is callsign substitution but with WIDE1-1
there is not. I must confess that when I first started on APRS not long
after you released it things were so much simpler. Now to run APRS and run
it correctly one has to be a rocket scientist. I dunno!
73 de Glenn...VE4GN
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Subject: Re: WB4APR's typing
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:27:20 -0700
X-Message-Number: 22
Yeah, but it drives non-native English speakers nuts. =]
Scott
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Subject: Re: WB4APR's typing
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 23
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, David VanHorn wrote:
>At 11:58 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>
>>"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
>>waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht
>>the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total
>>mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the
>>huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a
>>wlohe."
>
>will they apply this to cw testing?
Isn't that what the random code group tapes are preparing us for?
Looks about the same to me!
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: WB4APR's typing
From: "B. Hildebrand" <bhildebrand@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:31:01 -0700
X-Message-Number: 24
Or to say it another way:
"Aiccnrdog to a rhsecrecah at Cbgriamde Uinevirsty, it deosn't mtater in
waht odrer the ltretes in a word are, the olny iteonrpmt tnihg is taht
the frist and last letetr be at the rgiht pclae. The rset can be a tatol
mses and you can siltl raed it whtuoit pbolrem. This is baeucse the
hamun mnid deos not raed eervy letetr by iesltf, but the word as a
wlhoe."
OR
"Acciodrng to a rccreehsah at Cardgibme Uitsrinevy, it dosen't metatr in
what odrer the letters in a word are, the only inoetmrpt tihng is taht
the frsit and lsat lteter be at the rgiht pcale. The rset can be a toatl
mess and you can siltl raed it whioutt plbeorm. This is busaece the
hamun mnid does not raed erevy lteetr by itlesf, but the wrod as a
wohle."
OR
"Acrcidong to a raehccesrh at Cmgabrdie Usenriitvy, it dseon't mttaer in
waht oredr the letrtes in a word are, the only inroemptt tihng is that
the fsirt and last lteetr be at the right plcae. The rest can be a tatol
mess and you can slitl read it wuhiott pborelm. Tihs is beusace the
hamun mind does not read eevry ltteer by istlef, but the word as a
wlohe."
Benrt
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