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PA2AGA > HDDIG 01.07.00 14:57l 231 Lines 7565 Bytes #-9415 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_2000_173H
Read: GUEST
Subj: HamDigitalDigest 2000/173H
Path: DB0AAB<DB0PV<DB0MRW<DB0ERF<DB0BRI<DB0SM<PI8DAZ<PI8GCB<PI8HGL
Sent: 000701/0143Z @:PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU #:57093 [Den Haag] FBB $:HD_2000_173H
From: PA2AGA@PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 00 01:50:20 MET
Message-Id: <hd_2000_173H>
From: pa2aga@pe1mvx.ampr.org
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga.ampr.org
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> the
> > UHF,SHF, uWave frequencies, but y'all don't, so there!
>
> Say what?
>
> I'd hate to think the vast sums of money I've spent on university
> education, playing around with various modes, and so on, were
> wasted. And my employers (Glenayre) would be shocked to learn
> that I apparently know nothing about digital communications.
>
> Personally, I think ham radio's preoccupation with narrowband
> modes is silly. I think everybody should be on 10 GHz - 500 MHz
> of spectrum to play with, dead easy to use, dirt cheap to
> get going.
>
> Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
> Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..." - Hospital/Shafte
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:35:46 GMT
From: horseshoestew@my-deja.com
Subject: Forget HF & CW - Think Digital
In article <8iu1b8$p5b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
f1dfr@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> The only problem that you have missed is the question of ENERGY.
> Worldwide digital communications over Internet "eat" many energy and
> without AC power you can't run your digital network for a long time
> while you can operate a ham transceiver with a little solar or wind DC
> generator equipment and a car battery.
>
> From another point of vue, look what happens when a single node is
dead
> on a "crowded" route of Internet: a part of the network is dead.
>
> Of course CW is obsolet (all clever people know that for a long time)
> but nothing will replace a "point to point" SSB QSO in case of
worldwide
> emergency because in some desertic locations on Earth, your digital
> equipment has no chance to survive electronically.
>
> One of the job of ham-radio operators is to maintain a VOICE network
all
> over the world. High speed digital QSOs have no REAL interest for
hams.
> For that they have (or will get soon) ADSL lines. For us, a TNC2 is
> enough good.
I don't disagree with anything you are saying.
> 73s de JM F1DFR
Stewart - N0MHS
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Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:53:28 GMT
From: henry@wolfenet.com (Henry Knouse)
Subject: Forget HF & CW - Think Digital
"Peter O. Brackett" <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>"Forget HF", I am avidly involved in broadband local communications myself.
>You???
>
Sadly DX is almost impossible without HF. I have contacted over 19
countries all over the world via CW on HF in the last two weeks.
That would be some feat for the 2 meter up crowd.
>
>Get moving, gal!! To hell with HF get onto UHF, and uWave's with compelling
>broadband projects.
>
Where I live, I could not get very far using UHF only.
>
>Y'all's comments on CW show that you know almost nothing about "digital"!
>CW is digital and it embodies most of the modern concepts of source coding
>and channel coding into its ancient methods. Jeesh!! You guys probably
>don't even know the difference between source and channel coding! Digital
>people, har, har... wake up and do something!!
One of the real big problems with digital other than CW,is that
digital often uses packets to transmit information (Cw does not).
Sometimes CRC codes are transmitted via digital. If the error rate
gets too high, it could entirely stop communications. IF there is
an error in every block, using ARR, you might never complete sending
an entire block.
In the early days of computer networking (especially WANS and
remote networks), these errors have completely stopped computer
systems from working. In washington, there was a remote connection
between Everett and Pullman in the mid 70's that I worked on.
At times, the phone lines (we had a conditioned 9600 baud) were
so bad that we could not use this system.
In additon to bandwidth problems, digital is just only one of the
options available to hams, not the only one.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:47:11 GMT
From: horseshoestew@my-deja.com
Subject: Forget HF & CW - Think Digital
In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006221944160.373-100000@exp.bde-
arc.ampr.org>,
kd6lvw@att.net wrote:
> Your comments about digital modes not being high speed is merely a
LOCAL issue
> - other parts of the country [allegedly] do have 38k-56k or higher
operations.
I think there is a four-node 56Kbps system in the Atlanta area(they may
have more users than that attached to it). But each station setup
costs more than $600. That is why WA4DSY technology never caught on.
Some dudes in Green Bay, Wisconsin have set up a network using modified
inexpensive Part 15 devices - THIS is the way to go(see my web page for
references).
> In Southern California (where you are), we can't do what people won't
agree on.
> You want to fix that? Try running for an SCDCC spot at the next
election
> meeting (October).
Trying to make me old before my time, eh?
At the height of Amateur Packet Radio Network growth period('91-'94),
and just before the crash, I used to go to those meetings regularly.
Sometimes, more 100 people would show up. And you are right - THEY
COULDN'T AGREE ON ANYTHING!
> [Web site: http://www.qsl.net/scdcc]
I knew that.
Stewart - N0MHS
--
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Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:55:25 -0400
From: "Bob Lewis" <aa4pb@erols.com>
Subject: Forget HF & CW - Think Digital
Actually, a reliable 1200 baud packet network would probably be
sufficient for most emergency communications. One of the downfalls of
the packet network was that it was completely overloaded with a
multitude of unnecessary, uncoordinated BBSs that sent the same
messages to each other over and over. I used to send traffic between
the east coast and Michigan. The latency was several hours to several
weeks and about 50% never got through at all. If you want to build a
reliable wide area network at any speed, the first thing you need is
coordination. I'm not sure you can do that very well in a volunteer
organization where everyone wants to "do his own thing".
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 01:41:35 GMT
From: horseshoestew@my-deja.com
Subject: Forget HF & CW - Think Digital
In article <3953890f.2477388@news1.wolfenet.com>,
henry@wolfenet.com (Henry Knouse) wrote:
> "Peter O. Brackett" <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Forget HF", I am avidly involved in broadband local communications
myself.
> >You???
> >
>
> Sadly DX is almost impossible without HF. I have contacted over 19
> countries all over the world via CW on HF in the last two weeks.
> That would be some feat for the 2 meter up crowd.
>
You don't get it, do you? All you have to do is connect to the dude
with a DSL gateway down the street, and you can talk "all over the
world" - even on 2 meters.
Stewart - N0MHS
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To be continued in digest: hd_2000_173I
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