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PA2AGA > HDDIG 20.11.99 03:58l 234 Lines 7214 Bytes #-9677 (0) @ EU
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> before they are allowed to construct their own radio station.
>
> How is the situation in the USA?
>
> Rob
> --
>
>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:11:29 GMT
From: "John Roberts" <johnr@ece.jhu.edu>
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
I think you had better clarify this.
Are you telling me that if I receive and demodulate any signal that is not
publicly documented I am breaking the law?
I'm not selling the software, nor am I publishing what I receive. I'm simply
writing a demodulator for signals I receive.
The RF transmissions from the Sun aren't publicly documented, but I can
demodulate them and learn about what is going on in the ionosphere. Right?
Am I breaking the law by "listening" to the sun?
John
KD4UBM
Ellicott City, MD
Bob Lewis <aa4pb@erols.com> wrote in message
news:80t7f7$gb4$1@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> > The Swiss-PTC II has a private mode. I hear it all the time, but I
> can't see
> > what is being said. I *want* to be able to demodulate this.
> >
> If it's not publicly documented then it's illegal in the U.S.
>
>
>
>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:59:14 -0600
From: "Steve Sampson" <ssampson@usa-site.net>
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
That's not what he meant. He was talking about sending and
receiving signals between two stations, and not publishing the
algorithm to keep the channel private.
But that is not really illegal. Hams can transmit and receive unspecified
codes, and not publicly document it. The FCC can ask you to cease
activity, and provide records, but there is no presumption of public
documentation expected. There are other rules that cover ciphers and
that sort of thing, but creating a particular modulation scheme, even
scrambling it like they do in 9600 baud modems, is quite legal.
John Roberts wrote
>I think you had better clarify this.
>
>Are you telling me that if I receive and demodulate any signal that is not
>publicly documented I am breaking the law?
>Bob Lewis wrote
>> If it's not publicly documented then it's illegal in the U.S.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:45:24 GMT
From: "John Roberts" <johnr@ece.jhu.edu>
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
I understand what you meant now.
You are talking about transmiting undocumented codes while I was talking
about receiving signals that are generated by non-hams.
So the question remains: Does anyone know how to demodulate the "private
mode" used by the Swiss-PTC II (made by SCS)?
Thanks,
John
Bob Lewis <aa4pb@erols.com> wrote in message
news:80t7f7$gb4$1@autumn.news.rcn.net...
> > The Swiss-PTC II has a private mode. I hear it all the time, but I
> can't see
> > what is being said. I *want* to be able to demodulate this.
> >
> If it's not publicly documented then it's illegal in the U.S.
>
>
>
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:41:17 GMT
From: rmcconne.NOSPAM@lightlink.com (Robert McConnell)
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
What hasn't been decided is whether an undocumented modulation scheme
is a form of encryption, which would make it illegal on ham bands in
the USA. Some folks have suggested using this theory to challenge the
use of commercial products when the manufacturers won't publish the
technical details. Is it enough to hand the FCC a copy of your
confidential specification, or does it need to be available to anyone
who is interested in monitoring the bands for unlawful operations?
Bob McConnell
N2SPP
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:59:14 -0600, "Steve Sampson"
<ssampson@usa-site.net> wrote:
>That's not what he meant. He was talking about sending and
>receiving signals between two stations, and not publishing the
>algorithm to keep the channel private.
>
>But that is not really illegal. Hams can transmit and receive unspecified
>codes, and not publicly document it. The FCC can ask you to cease
>activity, and provide records, but there is no presumption of public
>documentation expected. There are other rules that cover ciphers and
>that sort of thing, but creating a particular modulation scheme, even
>scrambling it like they do in 9600 baud modems, is quite legal.
>
>John Roberts wrote
>>I think you had better clarify this.
>>
>>Are you telling me that if I receive and demodulate any signal that is not
>>publicly documented I am breaking the law?
>
>
>>Bob Lewis wrote
>
>>> If it's not publicly documented then it's illegal in the U.S.
>
>
>.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:20:24 -0500
From: "Bob Lewis" <aa4pb@erols.com>
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
> Hams can transmit and receive unspecified codes, and not publicly
> document it...
Not below 50 Mhz they can't. In the U.S., unspecified digital codes
can only be used above 50 Mhz according to 97.307 and even then they
can not be used with the intent to obscure the meaning of the
transmission (i.e. a "private mode"). 97.309(a) states that only
Baudot, Amtor, and Ascii codes can be used. It further states that
these codes can use any technique whose technical characteristics
have been documented publicly, such as CLOVER, G-TOR, or PacTOR, for
the purpose of facilitating communications. In other words, you must
use Baudot, Amtor, or Ascii codes for the individual characters but
you can format them into packets or any other protocol so long as
that protocol is publicly documented.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:45:45 +0200
From: Paul Keinanen <keinanen@sci.fi>
Subject: Where docs for pactor, amtor, clover, etc...
On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:20:24 -0500, "Bob Lewis" <aa4pb@erols.com>
wrote:
>Not below 50 Mhz they can't. In the U.S., unspecified digital codes
>can only be used above 50 Mhz according to 97.307 and even then they
>can not be used with the intent to obscure the meaning of the
>transmission (i.e. a "private mode"). 97.309(a) states that only
>Baudot, Amtor, and Ascii codes can be used.
While reading 97.309 and while the reference to ISO 646 will permit
substituting the characters #@[]\^_{}| with national variants and thus
supporting other languages than English, I can not see any references
to any 8 bit codes, such as ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1).
Since HTML pages are by default decoded in ISO-8859-1 and most likely
all non-English pages would contain some characters outside of the
traditional 7 bit ASCII range, transmission of such pages would be
technically illegal in the US on HF :-).
Paul OH3LWR
>.
------------------------------
End of Ham-Digital Digest V99 #295
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