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PA2AGA > HDDIG 07.10.99 22:39l 220 Lines 7095 Bytes #-9727 (0) @ EU
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/250F
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> >"power spread":. the difference between transmit and receive
> >power levels at the radio. ERP minus noise floor. Both in dbm.
>
> Ah, we appear to have a terminology problem. What you're
> describing is called * link margin*. Power spreading is dispersion
> of the signal over a wide area, generally an undesirable condition
> unless you're intent on broadcasting rather than linking.
Gary,
Read it again. "... at THE radio ...".
"Link Margin" has to do with two stations, the path between them,
the desired S/N, the effects due to propagation, component drift, etc.
"Power Spread" has to do with one radio. It does not consider
such things as the path (because there is only one radio), or
any of the other effects that determines "Link Margin". It is a number
which describes the capabilities of that radio.
Ya wanna quibble terminology, is fine with me.
But sure has little to do with the subject at hand: building links.
--
... Hank
http://horedson.home.att.net
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:27:34 -0700
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Xw34NxHJf+EF064afvXkDcnPO0tB@4ax.com...
> >"... well engineered .." makes no sense. The paths are what they are.
> >They go, for example, from my house to your house.
>
> That's where they end up, perhaps after several intermediate relay hops.
> But each hop path has to be properly engineered. That means proper siting,
> proper link margin, and proper consideration of multipath issues. This
isn't
> Olde Tyme Radio, we don't have to make the entire trip in one hop. Digital
> networks are naturally suited to automatic relay.
> >This is the long haul case we are talking about. You don't *normally*
> >put large dishes or large yagi arrays anywhere except on your own
> >property. Way too hard to maintain if they are not local. Exceptions
> >exist of course, but I've never personally encountered one.
>
> Nor have I. With an adequate number of properly engineered relay sites,
Gary,
Do you intentionally misread?
We were talking about a single link.
A path between two stations.
Between exactly two relay points.
One of those hops in the network.
> however, there is never a need for such large antenna structures
> >For the long haul case, it is rare that the path is line of sight.
> >Usually it is a scatter path of some nature.
> >Example: the troposcatter path from the Lowell, MA area to
> >Southern NJ on 2M 1200 baud. Worked quite well for us when
> >we used it. KW and 4 long yagis in NJ, 200W and two long yagis
> >in MA. Antennas at 170 and 120 feet above local terrain.
>
> Incredible. I bet you were *real* popular with the other people
> trying to use that segment of the band across at least 3 states.
> And for nothing more than a half duplex 1200 baud link at that.
Yes, totally terrible that we should carry on a QSO on 2 meters over
a long haul path. My oh my. Better see the "coordinator" and see if it
is ok to call CQ using high power on 2M SSB, find someone to talk
to a few states away, and then decide to play with digital communication
over that path. Oh dear! Next thing you know one will have to get
permission to work Aurora or Troposcatter, much less EME!
You seem to have misread "... when we used it ..." and pretended
that I said "Network link always up."
Curious: why do you bother to post these messages here?
Trying to convince hams to give up ham radio?
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:37:10 -0400
From: Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:08:41 -0700, "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net> wrote:
>
>Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:qITuN3bo4KIVXiYr8IRYBXGdZBAR@4ax.com...
>
>> Show us the header of a message that I have forwarded to or from a packet
>> BBS by telephone. You cannot because I have never done so. Nor have I
>> knowingly sent messages which have been so relayed at some distant point
>> beyond my control. Never once.
>
>I asked the question earlier in this thread, and will ask it again:
>Gary, can you send me a message via the ham radio BBS network?
>I have *never* gotten a message from you there, nor seen any
>bulletin you might have posted.
>
>Give it your best shot.
>If I receive one, I'll post it here, complete with headers.
>
>Or did you mean "I am not invovled in the ham radio network
>so of course you have never seen one."? If that is the case,
>then your pronouncements about that network have very
>little credibility.
I am involved with a ham radio digital network, pure RF, packet
switched, 56 kb, serving parts of 4 states. I am not involved with
BBS applications running over any amateur radio network. I haven't
even seen a BBS on the air here in about a decade. (There may
be something down on 1200 baud, but I don't have anything that
slow anymore.)
That you seem to think that the only ham radio network revolves
around servicing BBS applications is an indication of how far out
of touch you seem to be with current realities.
Gary
Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it |mail to ke4zv@bellsouth.net
534 Shannon Way | We break it |
Lawrenceville, GA | Guaranteed |
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 22:27:10 -0700
From: Walter Dunckel <wdunckel@best.com>
Subject: Packet modems and Windows CE portables
Here is how to set it up:
http://www.qsl.net/kc7gnm/packet_hpc.html
Walter
http://www.radiohound.com
Duncan Clark wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Is anyone out there using any Windows CE handheld portable connected to
> a packet modem (in my case a PK12) to access the DX cluster? My ancient
> Atari Portfolio (8086 handheld) has finally totally failed and I'm
> having difficulty tracking down terminal software for Win CE. Nothing
> special just something that makes it behave as a dumb terminal is all
> that is needed.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Duncan
> G4ELJ
> --
> A distraction is only a distraction if you pay attention to it.
>
> Duncan Clark
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:40:47 -0500
From: miles@mail.utexas.edu
Subject: Tandy 200 Laptop at eBay - Great for Hamming
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=175358934
Minimum initial bid is $1.
--
Miles Abernathy, miles@mail.utexas.edu, 512-471-1600
>.
------------------------------
End of Ham-Digital Digest V99 #250
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