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PA2AGA > HDDIG 27.09.99 14:27l 226 Lines 7960 Bytes #-9757 (0) @ EU
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/242C
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> distant ham radio converse servers? Hmmm?
Thanks for confirming what Gary said, Charles. You don't know the
difference between the network and applications which run over it.
Brian
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:01:49 -0700
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Charles Brabham <n5pvl@texoma.net> wrote in message
news:7si39j$25bd@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
> Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:7sgblm$mlr@dfw-ixnews19.ix.netcom.com...
> > Charles:
> >
> > You are missing the whole point.
>
> Which one is that? The one about Hams using Radio to communicate?
<deletia>
> >That is/was Phil's (KA9Q)
> > point in the email that you quoted. Let the big pipe long haul be done
by
> > fiber. Hams should still keep some small bandwidth HF applications,
call
> it
> > Internet backup if you like, for such as H&W messages on the xTOR's.
>
> That's a pretty pitiful outlook. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that kind
> of "thinking".
>
> Phil strikes me as not being on the "Ham Radio" team at all. I don't know
> what "side" he is on, but obviously it isn't Ham Radio.
When is the last time you saw a packet bulletin from Phil or Gary?
Been a long time here.
Makes me wonder if they do any ham radio networking, or if they
do, if their subnet is totally disconnected from the larger radio networks.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:18:19 -0500
From: "Peter O. Brackett" <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Charles, Hank:
One thing you guys are forgetting is that only around 5 - 10% of hams are
builders, designers, experimenters, be it hardware or software. (I believe
from my own observations that I am being conservative here, it's probably
closer to 1 - 2%!) And. . . most of the readers of this and similar NGs are
in fact from that 5 - 10%. The remaining 90 - 95% of hams are simply
appliance operators or users of the technology. Whether they be contesters,
traffic handlers, DXers, or simply lurk on BBS's.
There is nothing wrong with that statistic, and those 90 % are not second
class hams by any stretch of the imagination. Do not castigate the users
and appliance operators. They are what keeps our hobby alive. Without them
ham radio would not exist today. We need great numbers of technology users,
appliance operators to keep our hobby vibrant. Especially our amateru
digital data networks.
Now those who are capable, and who also have the time to build, design and
experiment, must be cognizant of this fact and cater to the users/appliance
operators. And the key designers, builders, experimenters must work towards
providing simple, easy to use technology to recruit and to grow a new
generation of hobbysts in that 90% category. That in turn means working
with the few remaining manufacturers who continue to hang in there with us.
For an example of a manufacturer who is willing to hang with us, consider
Martin Jue of MFJ, who has committed financially to amateur radio while all
the rest seem to be fading, going bankrupt, moving to other markets, etc . .
...
...
My point is that it is my perception that Charles and Hank exhibit a certain
distasteful elitist attitude towards those of us who are willing to
participate and use the technology, but sit on the side and do little or
nothing about building, designing, deploying and experimenting! Most ham
operators are not full time techno-nerds, they "have a life", wives,
families, church, skiing, fishing, Internet, business, etc. . . to occupy
their time, but they will support the pioneers by becoming enthusiastic
operators and users of technology if only those designers, builders,
experimenters keep them in mind while developing the next generation of
amateur packet radio networks.
Think. . . . other than public service H&W messages which we need to do to
justify our hobby to the rest of our fellow citizens, what are the
compelling applications that the users/operators will want?
Thoughts, comments,
Regards,
Peter AB4BC
Hank Oredson <horedson@att.net> wrote in message
news:7sirke$7g3$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Charles Brabham <n5pvl@texoma.net> wrote in message
> news:7si39j$25bd@enews4.newsguy.com...
> >
> > Peter O. Brackett <ab4bc@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:7sgblm$mlr@dfw-ixnews19.ix.netcom.com...
> > > Charles:
> > >
> > > You are missing the whole point.
> >
> > Which one is that? The one about Hams using Radio to communicate?
>
> <deletia>
>
> > >That is/was Phil's (KA9Q)
> > > point in the email that you quoted. Let the big pipe long haul be
done
> by
> > > fiber. Hams should still keep some small bandwidth HF applications,
> call
> > it
> > > Internet backup if you like, for such as H&W messages on the xTOR's.
> >
> > That's a pretty pitiful outlook. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that
kind
> > of "thinking".
> >
> > Phil strikes me as not being on the "Ham Radio" team at all. I don't
know
> > what "side" he is on, but obviously it isn't Ham Radio.
>
> When is the last time you saw a packet bulletin from Phil or Gary?
> Been a long time here.
> Makes me wonder if they do any ham radio networking, or if they
> do, if their subnet is totally disconnected from the larger radio
networks.
>
>
>
>
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:22:16 -0400
From: Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
On Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:46:49 -0500, "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
wrote:
>Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:7i=sN=Yelcc7vFpiLMTqYr82zMeW@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:31:29 -0500, "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
>wrote:
>> >Brian Kantor <brian@karoshi.ucsd.edu> wrote in message
>> >news:7se4el$rm4$1@karoshi.ucsd.edu...
>> >> So to sum up:
>> >>
>> >> Gary maintains that a network may well not be worth doing unless it is
>> >> high performance.
>> >
>> >...And since that is not practical, Gary maintains that it's "OK" to just
>> >get on the Internet and PRETEND that that high-performance network exists.
>> >This is much more important to Gary, as as ham, than using radio.
>
>Uh, Oh! Here comes the nasty, personal suff that you get when you hit the
>"sore spot", dead center.
>
>>
>> You continue to spout this lie, Charles, but you can't back it up. Our
network
>> is 100% amateur radio, always has been. One of our users offers a wired
>> internet gateway, but it is for wired internet access only, ie like a phone
patch
>> on a voice repeater. It is not used to route between segments of the
network.
>> (It couldn't, that would require at least two wired internet connections,
and we
>> only have one.) You're not only an idiot, you're a stupid lying idiot, a
fool, and a
>> buffoon who can't tell the difference between a service offered over the
network
>> and the network itself.
>
>Does your network cover the entire planet, Gary, or does it do as I suspect
>and only cover a very small part of it?
As I've clearly stated several times, our network covers parts of 4 states.
It is not a global network. Never was, never will be. That was not our intent.
We don't have grandiose delusions of being more than what we are. We're
a fast regional network. Nothing more, nothing less.
>Are your network's users so isolated and insulated from the rest of the
>packet world that they NEVER communicate with that outside world?
To be continued in digest: hd_99_242D
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