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ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.05.07 02:17l 245 Lines 10962 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 34 #31, 1/3
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Sent: 070511/2330Z @:ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC #:47347 [Waimate] $:10129-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Paul Zawada)
2. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Steve Dimse)
3. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Paul Zawada)
4. RE: APRS Coverage in Key West (Richard Sharp, KQ4KX)
5. Re: Re:FS - Mobile Wifi Stompbox (Bernard Tyers)
6. Embedded Displays for APRS (Andrew Rich)
7. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Steve Dimse)
8. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Steve Dimse)
9. Weather Alert Network on APRS (Eric Christensen)
10. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Joel Maslak)
11. Re: APRS Coverage in Key West (Steve Dimse)
12. Re: What settings for igate? (Greg D.)
13. RE: Objects on APRS (Eric Goforth)
14. APRS units needed for Race June 3rd (Edwards, Chris)
15. Re: Help for course/speed/altitude etc HF APRS (scott_at_opentrac.org)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:48:19 -0400
From: "Paul Zawada" <engineerz_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
On 4/27/07, Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com> wrote:
>
>On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Richard Sharp, KQ4KX wrote:
>
>>Perhaps "the county" should be using a 150 MHz frequency then...
>
>Why? Having it on APRS is nothing but a benefit to amateur radio.
>Maybe not as much of a benefit as Bob would like, but a benefit
>nevertheless!
Maybe because it's getting really close to violating FCC rules. If amateur
radio operators are not maintaining or actively using the stations, it
almost sounds like the county is improperly using amateur frequencies to
conduct non-amateur radio related business. While there may be a side
benefit to amateur radio, that doesn't justify the county conducting it's
business in a frequency band that it's not elligble to be licensed in. And
I would assert that when the situation gets to the point where the county
won't adopt commonly accepted amateur operational practices (as they
continue to evolve) because it doesn't serve the county's business
objectives, they've crossed the line into unauthorized operation.
If the stations are owned and operated by the county, who's callsign are
they operating under and why doesn't that person or club get a say in how
they are operated?
--zawada
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:06:53 -0400
From: Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
On Apr 29, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Paul Zawada wrote:
>On 4/27/07, Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com> wrote:
>>
>>On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Richard Sharp, KQ4KX wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps "the county" should be using a 150 MHz frequency then...
>>
>>Why? Having it on APRS is nothing but a benefit to amateur radio.
>>Maybe not as much of a benefit as Bob would like, but a benefit
>>nevertheless!
>
>Maybe because it's getting really close to violating FCC rules. If
>amateur radio operators are not maintaining or actively using the
>stations,
Where did you get that from? The stations are operated and maintained by
KQ4AZ in full accord with FCC rules. There is absolutely nothing in the FCC
rules that says that APRS equipment must operate in exactly the manner Bob
Bruninga dictates! Just because Bob issues an edict does not make it the
only legal way to operate.
The Florida Keys is not like anyplace else in the US. It is a small town of
70,000 stretched out over 125 miles. If you generously figure it a typical
town is 5 miles in diameter, it would equate to the density of towns with
2500 people. Do you really think you or Bob have a right to dictate system
requirements in every town of 2500 people?
On top of the low ham density, no place is over 10 feet in elevation, and
there are no monster towers to place digis because of the danger of
hurricanes. What works great here is not what works anywhere else. Fix your
own problems, there is no problem here!
Steve K4HG
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:20:20 -0400
From: "Paul Zawada" <engineerz_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
On 4/29/07, Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com> wrote:
>
>On Apr 29, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Paul Zawada wrote:
>
>>On 4/27/07, Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Richard Sharp, KQ4KX wrote:
>>>
>>>>Perhaps "the county" should be using a 150 MHz frequency then...
>>>
>>>Why? Having it on APRS is nothing but a benefit to amateur radio.
>>>Maybe not as much of a benefit as Bob would like, but a benefit
>>>nevertheless!
>>
>>Maybe because it's getting really close to violating FCC rules. If
>>amateur radio operators are not maintaining or actively using the
>>stations,
>
>Where did you get that from? The stations are operated and maintained
>by KQ4AZ in full accord with FCC rules.
In a previous message (on Friday) you stated the stations were owned and
operated by the county. In another message you also said there were no
other local RF users. If you add these two factors together, it at least
appears on the surface that the only entity benefitting from the system is
the county. If that is the case, there are PLMR frequencies available to
be licensed for this type of application. I was careful not to explicitly
state that the system was in violation of FCC rules, but was trying to say
the way the information came accross, it appeared it could be that way.
You asked why someone thought the county should be using 150 freqs, I was
trying to answer why some of us on the list might have thought so.
>There is absolutely nothing
>in the FCC rules that says that APRS equipment must operate in
>exactly the manner Bob Bruninga dictates! Just because Bob issues an
>edict does not make it the only legal way to operate.
I didn't say that the only way way to comply with the FCC rules was to
listens to Bob's edicts. (But clearly Bob isn't the only one who thinks
the new paradigm is good operating practice.) Again, I was trying to point
out that when the county's needs as opposed to hams' needs (especially when
I was lead to believe there were no local hams) are the rationale for why a
certain system is built a certain way, it *sounds* like a border-line case
regulations-wise.
>The Florida Keys is not like anyplace else in the US. It is a small
>town of 70,000 stretched out over 125 miles. If you generously figure
>it a typical town is 5 miles in diameter, it would equate to the
>density of towns with 2500 people. Do you really think you or Bob
>have a right to dictate system requirements in every town of 2500
>people?
I wasn't trying to dictate anything on how things are set up there. I
don't care what you do in the Keys. Again, I was just trying to explain
why at least a couple of us on the list were wondering if this should be on
APRS. When the question "why doesn't system X do Y?" was asked, we heard
it was because system X doesn't have any other local hams using it and
it's (non-ham) beneficiary doesn't need or want Y functionality. Clearly,
we don't understand the arrangement down there and when you defensively
responded to KQ4KX's statement without addressing the root of his point, I
was merely pointing out the point he raised was legitimate given the
information we have.
Maybe it's none of our business what the arrangement is down there and you
don't have to explain it to us, but don't turn it around to claim that I'm
trying to dictate that you use the new paradigm there.
--zawada
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:28:34 -0400
From: "Richard Sharp, KQ4KX" <kq4kx_at_arrl.net>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
However, I fail to see that it's an issue of doing what "Bob Bruninga
dictates." If memory serves the guys in California (as usual) were
stressing the use of what is now the nationally accepted "n-N paradigm"
long before Bob (or anyone else) started recommending it be adopted
nationwide.
Those weather stations/digipeaters in Key West are certainly in a unique
situation - low HAM density. Of course, not being near there I can't
really speculate on how many traveling HAMS use APRS when there. Granted,
there are "other" things to do when on vacation there or anywhere else.
However, many HAMS like to take HAM radio with them while on vacation as
part of the enjoyment of the hobby.
So, for the overall good of APRS in general it would be nice to see all
APRS sysops keep up to date on the current standard. This isn't
"dictating" anything but generally most sysops, repeater owners, etc. are
doing what they do for the good of Amateur radio in general.
Now, I'm speaking from a unique perspective because I am the sysop of the
exact same type of system that is in Key West. I work for "the county" in
the radio shop so I have direct access to the sites to keep the equipment
maintained. Our county EM & Fire Dept. was interested in having weather
data that is relatively "real time" to access. It was again just recently
used during a brush fire so they could keep tabs on wind speed & direction
from multiple areas around the fire.
I would have been the one to install the equipment regardless if it was on
APRS or not. I pitched my idea of having it on APRS and it was approved.
I even operate an I-Gate at my office to facilitate consistent APRS-IS
feeds from the weather stations.
My view is that since I took the initiative to have these weather stations
on APRS I would have it serve the APRS community too by setting them up as
digipeaters. There's certainly no extra cost in doing so. Now granted, I
did this project a few years ago and the all the equipment is modern so I
haven't been in a situation where a lot of infrastructure has had to be
replaced yet. Although, being on the 150 band wouldn't change the
maintenance requirements. The only real *upgrade* I've done recently was
update all the EPROMs in the KPC3+ to 9.1.
I could have simply put them on some other HAM frequency (not 144.39) or on
a 150 freq to *only* provide the weather data the county was interested in.
By putting them on APRS not only are they provided with the data but the
county is very pleased that others (including NWS) can view the information
as well - at no "extra" expense to the county.
Is it that the TNCs need firmware upgrades to comply with the new
recommended digi settings? If so, and the county doesn't want to pay for
that then surely there's a few HAMS down there that can pass the hat and
collect the amount need to purchase new EPROMS. Just a thought...
Or, is it the sysop(s) don't want to make the change. And I say sysop(s)
plural because over the years I've seen different callsigns on those
weather stations.
Bottom line here is just as Bob mentioned - it would be *nice* if the
stations were updated to the latest standard. If they're not it's not a
major deal it's just they won't be as user friendly to visitors along US 1.
Richard
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